[crow]

Babies are enough of an incentive to complete a breeding IMO. I'm pretty sure plenty of users would complete breedings even if they didn't make back the KS from it. Whether they'd be happy with the change is, of course, a completely different story, but in the theoretical situation that this was the only option, I'm sure people would still breed. And given that the point of the change is to cut down on breedings, if folks don't breed as much as they used to, then that goal will have been accomplished.

If we reduced slots to two per person, but made rooms one slot each, then people could either do two self-breedings or FOUR shared breedings, which... is more than our current system allows for. With three slots and rooms being two slots each, you could only do one self and one shared, or three shared in a month. Again, the goal is to reduce litters so mod focus can shift to other areas of the site. We're not trying to abandon the breeding area, it just shouldn't take up as much time and effort as it is right now.

As for the idea of those who RP more being able to breed more, that's basically what would happen if the KS gains in the breeding area went away. You'd have to RP more elsewhere in order to breed more. Raising KS costs of rooms would do the same thing--- you couldn't just RP in the breeding area, make up the cost of the room, and breed again.

And to belatedly address the slots issue--- I only proposed that idea as an alternative to paying out KS for unused slots, because that felt like an even more easily-exploited idea to me. If it were implemented, then yeah, the slots would have to have limitations put on them like the ones Atoli suggested.

I initially had my reservations going into this, but the more I read of this discussion, the more I'm starting to prefer the removal-of-KS-gains idea.

[amanda784]

If we reduced slots to two per person, but made rooms one slot each, then people could either do two self-breedings or FOUR shared breedings, which... is more than our current system allows for. With three slots and rooms being two slots each, you could only do one self and one shared, or three shared in a month. Again, the goal is to reduce litters so mod focus can shift to other areas of the site. We're not trying to abandon the breeding area, it just shouldn't take up as much time and effort as it is right now.

-Crow

Using slots like keys would actually open up MORE breedings

-My earlier post.

I understood it would actually make more breeding, that's why I said we should stick to the way it was. Anyways, taking away KS would increase outside posting, but not downside breedings. If you had to buy slots every month (up to three) and the price of the slots went up every time you bought one then it would decrease the amount of breedings. This could replace the breeding fee. Example:

Breeding slot 1- 120 KS (Yes, for this one you earn back all the ks, but for one slot you would have to have a partner. Just opened a door for an outside RP now that you've got a partner!)

Breeding Slot 2 - 250 KS

Breeding Slot 3 - 500 KS

Less angry people because there is still the opportunity for all 3 slots, more outside RPs, and more interaction between players.

[Redd]

I do want to thank you all for your responses, be it positive or negative. This discussion needs to happen because either way, whether you all like it or not the breeding area will be rebalanced. Like I said, the gains far exceed the work put in, especially compared to the other areas and because of the way Evelon works, we don't want to become a breeding sim. At all.
Also I do hope we haven't made a mistake in making breeding too easy and you guys don't forget what the Key system was like.

I think increasing slot prices is pretty... much yeah. Majority of the users voiced a no vote, and I'd say that isn't going to happen in any way shape or form. Also increasing the price by increments is kinda unfair for anyone who wants to breed with you. Even if we took away the KS gain, people still have access to 3 rooms a month and everything else you've suggested.

Like, we have been thinking on it and you guys aren't motivated simply by rewards. We released the war area and no one uses that. If you guys remember, the war gave you free points at the end of it and we even had a special breedable prize for the top 6 roleplayers. We tried giving you guys writing prompts in the form of special quests, but those are going to be axed because there was no interest on the Imperial side, and it would have made everything unbalanced. So adding things for you to do is clearly not the problem. It's because the breeding room has become too accessible, too cozy and no one wants to leave. The breeding area is a service, just like the Scintilla, the Evo-Lux and Ein's Clinic. If we took away KS gain, you pay 120KS and recieve 2-5 breedables. That is probably the best deal you will find on the entire site. Anything else costs a minimum of 250KS for a single pet. So that's why I initially (yeah I was the one who proposed this, you all can direct hate at me) thought that the Keystone side of it needs to be addressed.
This is why I'm not in favour (personally, as a user not reflecting the wishes of the staff right now) of compromise but we'll see where this goes.

[Thunder]

I just wanted to present another possible way of looking at things based on the new license rewards. Let's take the Lucain license as an example.

If you were to choose KS as your prize for every license, that would come to 1,900 KS (300 + 600 + 1000).

Divide that by the cost of one Lucain room (120) and you get 15.83.

In other words, the KS reward from all the licenses will eventually pay back the cost of 15 Lucain rooms (or 45-60 Lucain pups bred) for you. That's a pretty significant number! We didn't revamp the license system because of the current problem at hand, per se, but should we remove KS, the license prizes will at least help you get some KS back.

Even if you don't pick KS, the other option is, of course, a Lucain Key.

[MillietheWarrior]

If we reduced slots to two per person, but made rooms one slot each, then people could either do two self-breedings or FOUR shared breedings, which... is more than our current system allows for. With three slots and rooms being two slots each, you could only do one self and one shared, or three shared in a month. Again, the goal is to reduce litters so mod focus can shift to other areas of the site. We're not trying to abandon the breeding area, it just shouldn't take up as much time and effort as it is right now.

I'm not...sure where you'd get four breedings from two slots. That's still just two each (not multiplied by 2) You could do one self breeding or two regular breedings.

As for the war area, there are quite a few RPs there, some of them un-hosted as of yet. There's not much to do there; we don't know much about the war, what is coming, should we be prepared, should pets train, etc. Its hard to RP when we don't have a premise for why the pets are even in the war (besides wanting to fight the opposite side, even though the opposite side isn't very scary when we don't know much about what its even doing). And I don't remember seeing anything about prompts? I would've been interested, and I know others might have. Maybe I missed the thread, or missed where it was suggested. But yeah. Still not in favor of it, but it will happen either way, so I guess now its just a matter of how and what.

[ToxicShadow]

Thunder, I must say, you make an amazing point right there. Especially when looking at how many Lucain pups 15 breedings nets you. And 15 breedings is only if you are always paying the full fee, it would be 30 breedings if you always split the cost. Split so that each user pays 60 kS, the KS rewards from Licenses would entirely pay for breedings all the way up to the A Licences and, potentially, beyond. For Paragon and Soveris, it may not entirely pay you back, but it would still give you a large chunk back.

And, Millie, the way Amanda was describing it, "and a shared breeding only one of the two involved had to give up a slot," makes it so that a person could potentially breed four times or, even more, if they found many partners. (Use their 2 slots for 2 breedings, then find partners willing to give up their slots and just breed with them.) Since it would be that from two partners, only one would use a slot. That is what Crow is referring to. She's not pulling numbers out of the air, here.

In my opinion, too, there isn't a whole lot of use mentioning the war in a thread about breeding. I understand people are comparing it as a feature and saying if there was more to do in the War, then maybe people would focus on it instead of just breeding. I do believe that in many places now, we staff HAVE said that we are planning stuff for the War as we speak. Going on RIGHT NOW pets cannot die in battle, and the battlefields also awards KS per each post. Yet only one battle has been started since the announcement was made that no pets can die in battle, for the time being. Additionally, there were prizes given out at the end of the last war, so it stands to reason that prizes will be given out at this one, so roleplaying in war threads will eventually net you prizes. That seems like it would be good motivation.

Also, yes, there was a place to sign up for missions in the war, which Krypto ran, yet nothing really came of it. Not many users showed interest, so it seems like it was wasted effort.

I hate to pull reality into a made up world, though, too, but how many soldiers really knew the details of what they were fighting for? It obviously helps our inspiration, knowing what is going on, but nothing is stopping you from making up what specifically is going on with your characters currently in the war. Just between my own characters, I have one that is going to try to kill off another one. Heck, you and I even planned for one of your characters to visit one of mine that's in the war, but you never got back to me.

[Shieba]

I know I'm not very active right now, but for what it's worth, I'm not happy but okay with the KS removal idea. Also with the suggested idea of removing one of the slots since I never used them all anyway; token system or no token system. Of course the fact that the posts covered the fee, basically, was the reason I could breed in the first place, but well, I failed my last rooms anyway because of the time limit, so less timelimit stuff and more normal RPs are something that's definitely a thing I should do anyway.

As for the war thing mentioned: As awesome as the current no-dying bonus is, I will not battle anymore until my pet finally has the traits it applied for on 06/22/2012. Yeah, three years ago. And I'm not the only one waiting since that time. If the demigods would care about their shrine a bit, there's more people who would battle, I think... at least I would. As for the special missions, I wrote a lot in the suggestion section about that already a few minutes ago. Basically, I found the system way too flawed but thought that Nyxia had suggested something really awesome now at least in terms of prizes.

Basically: What's needed IMO to lure people into RPing in the normal sections more is the promise of a prize they can't get through other means. People breed because they can't get new breedables any other way for so little currency. BP can be gained by any normal war RP - no need to battle and have to rely on a mod to roll and a partner to reply in a reasonable time, even with the risk of dying removed. The slight BP increase the special missions offered was hardly worth the hassle of the downsides of the special missions. KS can be gained in various ways as well - sell one of the babies you get from a breeding for the room fee and you still bred for basically free, for example. That's not how you lure people into other sections. I think Nyxia had, in the user suggestion forum, a great idea with making another barrack slot a prize. Because that's unique, you can't get it anywhere else than in the event she suggested and you still earn BP and KS from the posts and as a prize. That's a good prize, especially since it doesn't give the mods any more work.