[Thunder]

At the upcoming nakacon next Feburary I will be handing out some business cards for the site and it turns out my current fursuit can be easily modded to fit for a rollaby so I'll be in that advertising. I hope that will help for drawing in new members. Maybe we can use cons as venues for getting out word?

I was strongly considering doing this if my friend takes me to Otakon next summer. I say go for it, definitely.

[Shieba]

I feel like I should post here because, yeah.

I recently tried to advertise Evelon to my tumblr RP friends a bit and one (Amon) signed up while another watched the site for a bit. And both kinda got to the conclusion that the site is well, pretty dead. And there's no reason to stay on a dead site. Also, I decided to leave Evelon for that very reason as soon as all that's left to do for me here (paying for my last customs and stuff) is done as well, but that's neither here nor there.

But what I want to say with that is: If you want to draw new, lasting members, something needs to be done. Simple advertisement won't cut it when people come to look and see a dead place. It's a vicious thing - we need new members for more activity, but without activity here, there will be no or only far too few new members. So I thought about some things:

- I think maybe it would be the best to try to reach Baal and check when there will be a sale again? Customs being open and the fact that sales only last limited times might work as an incentive if all the advertisement on other sites get launched then so that people can see stuff is going on.

- Official contests should maybe be posted in a new subsection of the Update forum. Again, that shows activity. Contests are the LAST section of the main forum, in the same region where the G&C section and the forum games are and that just doesn't seem very official and eye-catching to me.

- I think things like the Wishing Well should get their own place where they are more likely to be seen as well (sub-section of the marketplace maybe?).

But of course, that all is of no use when just no one RPs. Granted, maybe inviting tumblr RPers wasn't the best choice since that means people who are used to write several replies a day and seeing such a dead place probably scared them away more than it would scare other people, but... yeah. We had a good discussion going on here about new stuff, but I fear that unless there will be more activity going on in the first place through whatever means, new members will be rare. And from what I read in the journals of the mods, they're all mad busy anyway with various stuff, so there will be not many new things which keep people hooked and RPing. But again, I may be wrong.

But that's just my own two cents, drawn from what I heard from the two people who were actually interested in the site and honestly checked it out.

[zapdragon555]

Shieba makes some very good and realistic points. Too add to that, some pet peeves of mine that I'm sure also bother new members is that the main site is very outdated. A lot of the information about customs is wrong, or at least it is according to mods I've spoken to, and all of the information about planning customs (I'm going to specifically target Kuhnas; the new available expressions are in one place, the species album is in another, things are just sort of scattered everywhere) is difficult to gather at best. I also agree with Shieba about contests and the wishing well (and maybe the shrine areas as well? those seem like they would be lumped in with the wishing well).

I've also wondered about maybe some more user hosted plots that many people can participate in at once? Because yeah, everyone just having private or self RPs (I am guilty of this, oops) isn't going to look like a very welcoming place for new members. I'd even argue actively engaging new members with offers to RP would be a good idea. Maybe also give newbies some sort of care package with a few retired pets or less valuable seasonals? There are so many unwanted less-valuable pets that I'm sure we could pool a few to give away to newbies (though I think Toxic already does this in her trade thread which is super cool yo).

But yeah, like, the members on Evelon are extremely nice and helpful and friendly, but the fact that there is so little forum activity can be a turn off to some people (though for me it's rather nice because I don't have to rush to keep up with things, haha). I think that's just a matter of getting active again sobsbs but of course with college and school and work, it makes it a bit difficult.

I'm mostly rambling here but I kind of just wanted to put my thoughts down, eheh. ;o;

[Nyxia]

I promise I didn't forget this topic, I'm just...yeah...worn out badly.

Shieba/Zap:

The near deadness of the site is one thing that has worried me, and yes it is often a driving force in new members leaving as quickly as they sign up. I do like Zap's idea about user hosted contests and mass rps, in fact I have one planned once I survive this last three weeks of 12 - 14 hr shifts. Since the mods are very busy (and a couple have vanished) I think it would be best if some of the users did take over on that a bit.

You all can take this for what its worth coming from someone dead tired, but I've been floating another idea in my head for a while. Something that might also keep new users around and help them, is if people now and again shared their breeding keys. I know for most of us those are nearly sacred objects here, but it would help since we are advertising the breedings to draw in people. My thought is maybe have a thread (individual or mass) which even users who don't normally rent out pets listed some we would rent, and offer to let them share a key with any of us who were listed as offering; that might help a lot as well since sales are rarely open, and not everyone has the money to spend when they are.

Feel free to shot me, stone me, or just whack me if that is a crazy idea or didn't make sense.

[GrayGriffin]

I'm willing to offer free rentals to new users, as will as share keys. (I still have one Lucain key that I haven't found any use for.)

[zapdragon555]

Renting pets sounds like a really cool idea! I know some people do that already but it would be great if we could have more people do it haha. I have a couple of Lucain that I wouldn't mind renting out (and room key sharing is a must tbh, like self breedings are cool but it's a lot more fun to RP with others haha)

[Shieba]

@Zap: I haven't mentioned the Shrine because I wouldn't show that off right now. I'm waiting for my Trait since 06/22/2012 and Millie since 03/02/2013. A revamp was announced on 02/16/2014 where Kodai said: "Because I know people have been waiting a long time for Traits and I wanted to get this done quickly in an effort to at least partially make up for that." So yeah, showing the Shrine off right now would be nothing but a show of inactivity and slowness and broken promises and not encourage people to stay. Also, a few people have talked about maybe abandoning the battle system, so there's that as well.

@Nyxia:
That's an interesting idea - I personally like to rather do my plot breedings, but others might and if enough people volunteer, that might get interest. Maybe. I think the fact that "Hey, we users want to share keys with you new ones because we rarely get any" might not sound very encouraging to newbies.

In general, I am...very concerned. I dunno if it's just me, but we had a long discussion about Evelon being dead in the G&C section a while ago and by now, I have basically given up (which is why I said I'd leave). As of me checking right now, Kodai hasn't logged in in September at all, Shrewdie said before that she's not all that happy on Evelon anymore, Kyrit is mad busy in RL, Krypto posted in her journal that she has a lot of RL issues as well and I haven't seen Silv in ages, but that might just have been me, who's stuck in a different timezone. And I think we usually had two sales a year, one in summer and one for Christmas, and there was none this summer. Which means it has been, for example, more than a year since Diosol were available (last sale didn't have any).

RL has caught up with many of us - I, for example, hope that Toxic will stay around even when she gets her little one; SpringsSong pretty much disappeared completely after she had her child, which is very understandable, but a good example of how RL and the fact that so many members are older now keep the site dead. And with even the mods disappearing because of busy times... The Kuhna revamp brought activity back for... a week or two. That's it. And if something that big does so little, it just doesn't mean anything good. I, for one, fear that Evelon is really, finally dying. But maybe that's just me being all pessimistic and stuff. For me, the site is too inactive and slow (hi, Shrine Traits) by now.

[zapdragon555]

I will say one thing about mod inactivity, they're all fairly frequent on the IRC, and as far as I know they're all either very busy with RL things or are trying to get war pets wrapped up. So I wouldn't count them out yet; things are just at a tiny standstill right now (if you want your shrine traits I'm sure if you could catch Kodai on the IRC she'd do it lickety split for ya, at least that's what I did with a restricted trait).

Anyway I don't think "concerned" is a good way to put how I feel about the future of Evelon. Regardless of inactivity there are still members who frequent this place fairly often (I am one of them) who will keep it at least somewhat alive. And even then it's still a fun little place to roleplay, even without all of the customs stuff (though customs are certainly a huge part of its popularity). I'm not "concerned" so much as I feel like we're in a lull right now. And lulls are overcome with time and new members. I'll say one thing though, it's not easy to use this website; the levelling up system, the stats, the traits, it's all text based and therefore people have to make tedious choices. I, personally, love that level of free range customizability, but the fact of the matter is some people don't. (I'm not saying we should change any of that per say, I'm again just sort of jotting down thoughts on metaphorical paper.)

Also I haven't heard about dropping the battle system and frankly I would not be happy with that because tournaments are some of my favorite things. :'0

[Kyrit]

I'm actually at work right now, so I can't take tooo long to in-depth read the recent posts, but I did scan through them.

Outdated website; Probably a bit of a spoiler I suppose, but there has been background work on getting the website updated. It requires the work of Baal and Krypto together though (as well as a bit from others here and there), so it's taking a bit of time. The website is getting ready to be updated though.

Mod inactivity: I can't say I know much about the situation of other mods. I've seen a bit of Krypto's via her journal, but despite Zap's above post, I'm actually not in the irc all that much right now. I've set aside Mondays, Wednesdays, and Sundays as days that I go straight home after work/school, but on the other days I don't get home until around 10 pm Central time (11 pm Evelon time), so by the time I do get on the irc, everyone's gone for the day. I will hopefully be working on catching up on customs and other Evelon work on those mentioned days though, now that I've officially set them as, "Leave me alone" days as far as RL friends go. I hear very little of any of the rest of the staff, and I've got posts in the staff area that I've been waiting at least a week for a response (and in some extreme cases there's actually one topic of discussion in particular that I've been waiting since July to get input from some people). Kodai hasn't logged on the website since August, and Silv just within the past few days finally popped on from an absence streak. Basically staff communication is pretty poor right now, though I'm hoping to remedy that at least a little bit on my end by setting aside those three days a week that I actually get online at a decent time.

Everything else:
Once I'm not at work I'll come back and actually read in detail and post more (It is Wednesday, so I should be home at a decent time). I need to get at least another hour or so of work in for now though.

[Kyrit]

M'kay. I'm back to post more now that I'm actually at home.

- Contests; Do you mean the contests themselves, or just the updates that let people know a new contest is going on? I'm actually fine with either of these, though I just want to make sure. Honestly though, the most recent two contests were probably some of the easiest we've ever had and there were... very few entries. RE2 said that only 3 people even entered their contest. Mine got a few more than that, and RE2 did say those that did enter gave a lot of stuff, but yeah. People seemed to skip out on the easy KS those contests gave. That's not really the discussion, but just figured I'd mention that on the off-hand.

- Wishing well; I'd be cool with this. Things like the poor, dusty, forgotten Hobo Corner could be included in such a sub-section as well.

- User hosted events; If more people suggested user-host events, I'd gladly fund them. The main problem with why so many of the old suggested ones haven't been hosted is that they involve some requirement that just doesn't seem needed. Many will request a custom, but it feels like they're requesting that custom to turn in to a pet that is hosting the event or is part of the event, rather than as a prize of the event. Granted that's not the case for all, and maybe that's not even how users mean for it to seem. Telling us you want a custom to fit the role of the villain of your plot or something though to us is needless.

Going back through the thread, I have noticed a few here and there that look fine that don't mention having been funded. I can always PM those users (if they're still active) and see if they're still interested in hosting such an event, but yeah. The last time someone even requested for funding for a user-hosted event was back in 2012. If you guys are wanting to host events, please do feel free to ask for funding. We'll gladly help so long as you're not just trying to ask us for custom pets that man the event.

- Shared keys/rentals;
This is again something that's more from the user side, but I've personally offered to help users breed before. We never got around to it (mostly because I got busy), but when crow first came back to the forums I offered to help breed her a Paragon using one of my own keys and do still plan on using that key for such once I get a bit of time. I also don't have a rental listing, but I have let people use some of my pets here and there when asked. But yeah. This would be user-based, but I'd personally support it. One reason I don't breed much is because I'm bad at roleplaying by myself.

On a side note though, if such a thing did become popular for helping new users, Vance himself could actually make a rental listing for new members. If they could get a key for get someone to agree to a breeding using that person's key, Vance could let them choose from a few stock Lucain/Paragon/Sov/whatever. Just a thought while typing.

Let me know if I missed anything?

[SkyWolf11]

Bit of a long post but bear with me. ; w;

On a first note, as a fellow Evelonian over on FlightRising, I'd be willing to lend my services over there as needed. :3  I rarely breed much anymore so all of my Ice nests are usually open and my lair is relatively empty so if we do dragon giveaways or raffles and such, I could hold and feed them as well as distribute them to winners as needed as long as I was notified as to when to do it~  

Second note, I had an idea for attracting new members as well.  Now, I have no idea if this is even possible or seen as needed/wanted, but in my honest opinion I think the Evelon Forums need a bit of a revamp.  o 3o  I'm not talking total rehaul but something to better organize the forums a bit better.  Even now as an old member of like 6 years or so, I still find trouble in finding the info I need all in one spot.  It could just be me and how I'd personally organize things together, but I feel we could benifit from looking over all the old rules threads and such and compile all the info given from past ones and Q&As that have been asked and confirmed in the Help section into one big Rules/Help/Questions section where it'd be easier to find.  

Like, for example, I myself as well as others I've seen before have had some trouble guessing the right email/paypal to send things to when ordering from Baal even when I know it's been said somewhere.  My problem is finding where that somewhere was and even then still not entirely sure if it's right since I might find it mentioned in an old post.  xD  I think that info and things of that nature and relevant importance should be kept really up to date and somewhere at the top of the forums where it can be found in a few clicks to save confusion.  :3  Not that it wasn't at one time or another (or I'm just blind) but we have had new topics/updates that sort of push somethings down out of the immediate view.  Not sure if I'm the only one with this problem (cause I'm bad at info finding on the webs lol) but just throwing my two cents out there.  ^ u^

Also, going off what Shieba was saying about just not roleplaying enough, we should do more things yes.  Yes descriptive I know x,D  But like how the war was pretty cool, maybe more things like that?  I personally have never really gotten into the Evelon Lore if only because all the info on it is pretty scattered.  I mean, even the roleplays Baal and other members did that is sort of canon to the Evelon lore/important to understanding it would be helpful to read up on for more understanding (on my part, at least).  So maybe making that info more readily available if it isn't already?  And definitely maybe having more things diving into the lore around Evelon more to give more .. atmosphere?  If that makes sense?  *tries to put thoughts into coherent explanations*  And just more over group involved things that encourage others to roleplay together more.  Not sure what to do myself but I know we have a suggestions thread for user hosted roleplays and the like but yeah, more of that. :3

(wrote this before I saw  posts later on in the thread on the second page but yes, getting my thoughts out on the subject nonetheless and pretty much agreeing xD  Going back to read through posts on the second page now P: )

[Baconwizard]

I definitely agree with SkyWolf's first point. It's really difficult to figure out what the heck to do on Evelon, even if people tell you where to go, and it can be a frustrating process. Like the whole process of ownership records took me a long time to understand, as well as how breedings work (like the title, what to write for the mods, how to end it, etc). Especially for new members, it's scary to talk to people. At least in my experience, even though I know full well that the people in this community are awesome, I don't want to come across as annoying or ignorant I guess. I had actually considered bringing up the point of an area full of information that new members or current members can use just to help navigate things, or with instructions on how things are done. There's a lot of information out there, it's just hard to track down.

[Firetra]

I don't know if this is going unnoticed or not, but I think it should be brought to the attention of the site that THIS PLACE NEEDS AN OVERHAUL! There are so many sections that are open that are left unused and abandoned, no one uses the tournaments, records are hard to find and use, and there are things still here that should have been gone a long time ago. I made a comprehensive guide to show exactly what I think needs to change {x}

Here are some explanations on what I put in:

-Make Members Suggestions its own Section. Having it as its own sub-section makes it hard to know when someone has posted something new. The only reason I pull open the Suggestions and Updates thread is because I can see the latest time stamp on when someone posted. And while not heavily trafficked, I still think this section needs to be brought to the fore-front to show that the site is open to ideas.

-Removal of the Easter Section. IT REALLY NEEDS TO GO! It makes the site look kinda old and outdated, it shows that the last time someone posted there was in 2013, it has to go.

-Important Doc's consolidation. I really think Wishlists should go in as a subsection of important docs. It gets rid of wasted space and makes less of a pain to scroll down the page. I also think Official Records should go in as a section in this, to make it easier to get to pet records and to show what has gone where.

-Trader's Outpost is not really used at all, I have been on this site for a long time but I have tried to stay away from that section of the market because it is a little bit confusing to navigate. Also a prerequisite to have a class A breeder's licence makes it hard to want to make a shop there. And honestly, most of the pets there are already sold and I think the only reason people go there is to go to Trader Morey, but that can be moved to the Bazaar area.

-The war seems to already be done and I think it is a little unfair for new people who would join to see this and then realize that it is already over. Like with the Easter section, we need to have a better place to put these, which will be talked about in just a second.

-The outline roleplay section, I feel can be moved to one spot, right above the Lambasta Section. While it is not frequented that often, I still feel that people might want to roleplay here. I feel like this area should be used as a roleplay advertisement area rather than putting it in the Shop and Trade area. It would be easier to see if a new person was joining rather than looking into the Advertisement section and then finding the subsection there. And also, in my opinion, I really don't like the idea of having recruitment for roleplays, it takes the fun out of not knowing what is going to happen next. And also it limits what new people can do because they will go to a section of the roleplay areas and see that all of the rp's going on are private. When I joined, the reason I got hooked was because everyone kept their RP's open and the only time they were private was when they were well into their plot development. I feel like Evelon has become more like a clam that used to have its mouth open, and over time started to shut itself off from the rest of the world (IK cool metaphor right)

-The Sekuduki Farmlands are something that I was not able to participate in when I joined because they just started to close up when I got on Evelon. From what I heard, they were a lot of work to handle and time consuming. I want to bring the farms back, but I feel if they come back, someone should have the sole job of taking care of them. Kind of like how Toxic takes care of records. I feel like this place is undervalued and should be brought back, because unlike other RP's, there is usually something to look forward to, just like breedings. And I think that if they are brought back, it should be on a plot rental system, but I will talk about that more if it catches anyone's attention.

-The breeding area is too important to be at the bottom of the site, bring it up so that people don't have to search for it at the very bottom of the page. I also feel like General Vicinity should be moved/removed. No one frequents it enough to be viable to the site. I like the breeding reform and I think that has brought more traffic to the site because it gives people something to look forward to.

-The tournament area needs an overhaul, I really think that this should be called the Events Area. It saves time to just put the War Events and Holiday Events here rather than making a new section. Contest Central should also be included here because it would be considered an event. And also the name Misc. Tournaments is a little lengthy and I feel like its foreboding to open. Naming it User Events/Tournaments would be great because It shows that people can host their own stuff as well. Suggestions for events could also move here as its own subsection, rather than fighting for space in the Member's Suggestions area.


I love this site too much to see it be abandoned. While I do not have a FR account (curse you servers being full) I would totally join you guys in member recruitment if I had an account. This site has its quirks and things that need to be fixed, but there is a saying " if you have a broken light, don't move to a new house, just change the bulb." What I am getting at is that the site, while functional, is not really helpful for new people. When I joined it was like that and it took me a long time to get used to it. I also feel like the Adopt! section at the top of the forums should be moved TO the forums. It gets rid of traffic on the site and makes it disjointed. And while you can easily get to the Adoptables from the Forum, it is quite hard to get to the Forums from the Adoptables area. The two don't have many things that tie the two sites together. The layout is so different that it feels like you are on a completely different site. It feels ancient from my standpoint, even though some pets have been revamped. The Special Event/Experiment/ Wild Pets have needed updates that have not been made (The special Pets during certain times of the year for Wild Pets).

I just feel like the Adopt side of the site needs to be moved to be 1) more accessible to the Forum, 2) more cohesive and fit in with the theme of the Forum. and 3) Updated regularly so that people do not have to search everywhere on the forums for the name of some of the Seasonal Pets and where some of the new Wild Pets are.

While not necessary, I feel like it would be nice to have some art for some of the RP places, rather than just words. Like the roaming Vast Plains, the mysterious Craiss Caverns, and the majestic Tuun Mountains. Having visual aids to these would help people with visualizing just where exactly they are. And like how at the World Bridge's for each continent, I think each should have a post at the top that shows these and goes a little more in depth on what went on there plotwise, what the weather is like, and so on and so forth. The maps at the World Bridge's give us a little insight, but I feel like there can be more.

Now I felt like I wrote too much, but then again, too much is better than too little. I know things take time to happen, but these, in my opinion, would better help the site's longevity and make it more appealing to new people. Also I agree with helping out new people to having some seasonal pets, having like a grab bag item that randomizes a pet for a new comer would be awesome as it makes people feel welcome and a little invested now that they have this pet.

[GrayGriffin]

Um...I'm confused. The war is clearly still going on. The RP areas are getting regular updates. Why do you think  it's ended?

[Firetra]

Really? It shows most of the posts made in both areas timestamped at 2013. The only thing that people have posted in recently is the bounty hunter's guild. So to me it just looked like it was over because most people stopped posting in that area. But I really didn't take much of a look in that area because of the timestamps. But like said above, it could be moved under an events subject rather than just floating out there. Most of the suggestions I made were really just moving things around to make things closer together and provide easier pathways for people to acess information. Sorry if I thought the war was over,I may have also been looking in the wrong areas as well.