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Re: Feedback Forum/Section

Postby Kyrit » 03/05/2016 9:33 PM

I've been wanting to give this time, to let as many users give input as wanted, since ask Kreepy mentioned in the G&C section, it does often feel like if staff posts in a topic it just.. dies.

I mentioned to Silver in the irc the other night when she asked if my replying to it was going to be positive or negative that it's more neutral ground. As a whole, I'm fine with this idea. I think it's great for those that are looking for feedback. My only concern is I'm not so sure it needs so many subforums. Instead the way I'd see it is a single forum (or two if people really badly want that Roleplay Listing area) and users just mention in the title of any thread they create what type of feedback (art, writing, ect) they are looking for. It'd avoid needing to make so many areas.

As with what some of the others said, I'm against real life feedback being a part of this feature. I know you specifically stated that it'd have to not involve anyone else on Evelon/from the community, but feedback for real life situations seems a bit too big of a risk to me, mostly because of things we've seen happen from users disagreeing about real life topics in their journals.

If users do want some sort of monetary compensation for using the area, Kreepy and I both agreed a few nights ago that just leaving KS gain on in the area would be easiest. I don't think we'd necessarily need to make it to where users have to write 5 sentences, so long as they're actually giving feedback. Granted, if we saw someone just posting "I like it!" in every single person's thread and seeming to just use it for KS gain, we'd probably start getting a bit more strict, but really I don't think we'll need to. So long as people say why they like or dislike something, that's good enough to me to leave KS gain on in the area and would be the easiest way to handle it. I doubt we'd have to do much policing either, as usually users see that sort of thing arise and bring it to our attention without us needing to hunt it down.

So essentially, I'd like to hear if users absolutely want an area dedicated to just roleplay records and if users would rather the separate sub forums or what I suggested of a single forum and users just identifying what they want feedback on.
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Re: Feedback Forum/Section

Postby Remedy » 03/05/2016 10:32 PM

Weighing in with my two cents on this topic~

Kyrit wrote:As with what some of the others said, I'm against real life feedback being a part of this feature. I know you specifically stated that it'd have to not involve anyone else on Evelon/from the community, but feedback for real life situations seems a bit too big of a risk to me, mostly because of things we've seen happen from users disagreeing about real life topics in their journals.

I agree with Kyrit in that I don't think that RL feedback is a good idea, at least not in a public, generalized sense. People have different beliefs and problems, and I just feel like that kind of subforum could easily spiral into an argument-prone area if two users strongly disagree on how another should handle a situation. Also, RL advice just generally seems like something... that people ask their close friends about, rather than posting it up for all to see and weigh in on.

I also think that just one general "Community Feedback" section would be best, rather than having a bunch of subforums tucked away. Kind of like a thread in Advertise, people could start a new one each time they want specific advice on something. But perhaps it could have tags, like [Art] or [RP] or [Bio] (like character bios and such). I feel like it would be a lot easier for people to see everyone asking for advice if it was all in one place, rather than navigating through a bunch of subforums.

Then, people could also combine things [Bio+RP] to say, "I came up with this character, but I don't know if the way I'm RPing them really reflects the personality blurb I wrote. Thoughts/suggestions on how I could portray X type of character?"
Or they could have [Art+RP] "Hey I wrote this RP with so-and-so, and then drew some scenes from what went down! Check it out and tell me what you think!"
Or something like that. c:


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Re: Feedback Forum/Section

Postby ToxxicRenegadeAngel » 03/06/2016 6:49 AM

I like Pickle's suggestions about the tags for topics, and I do think that having one overall feedback area would be the best idea - the RP listing topic could be a sticky thread at the top, with users posting up to three RP links at a time for feedback?

And RL advice is a difficult subject, due to it's nature; if you want advice on a RL issue you can always PM another user that you feel comfortable discussing the matter with, or leave it in your journal for others to see and comment on in their journal as currently occurs.
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Re: Feedback Forum/Section

Postby Jaykobell » 03/06/2016 6:40 PM

Kyrit wrote:I've been wanting to give this time, to let as many users give input as wanted, since ask Kreepy mentioned in the G&C section, it does often feel like if staff posts in a topic it just.. dies.


While there is truth to that, topics also die when there's just plain no staff input as well. Ideas will die when staff comes and says they're either not interested in the idea, or when they say it's very unlikely it'll get implemented. Because what's the point of members posting then? Staff said no. There is nothing left to discuss.

But if staff doesn't say anything... it also looks like they're not interested? So why waste our time giving opinions and suggestions, like Krypto said in that other topic, when it looks like staff has no interest? It's also very hard for members to discuss and develop a feature without staff support. They don't necessarily know what can and can't be done in terms of staff work or abilities.

Kyrit wrote:I mentioned to Silver in the irc the other night when she asked if my replying to it was going to be positive or negative that it's more neutral ground. As a whole, I'm fine with this idea. I think it's great for those that are looking for feedback. My only concern is I'm not so sure it needs so many subforums. Instead the way I'd see it is a single forum (or two if people really badly want that Roleplay Listing area) and users just mention in the title of any thread they create what type of feedback (art, writing, ect) they are looking for. It'd avoid needing to make so many areas. [...]

So essentially, I'd like to hear if users absolutely want an area dedicated to just roleplay records [...]


My reasoning for the multiple subforums was so people knew where and what kind of critiques are being requested as a glance. I tend to prefer to be too organized than to have messes. That being said, it's not hard to make new areas, anyway? And it avoids getting swallowed and buried as well. And if we have only art, writing, and the RP listing, then that's just 3.

And I'm confused. Why do we need to want it really badly? It doesn't need staff intervention, it doesn't need rules, it doesn't inspire flaming or rule-breaking. We have sections dedicated to Zoo Pens, we have sections dedicated to Wishlists, we have sections dedicated to wills, sections to records, sections to 'yourself' (All About You, which is honestly sort of really pointless and never being used). But I suggest a section for Roleplay Listings, RPs being the core of Evelon... and people have to want it "really badly"?

No one really badly wanted to Outline Areas. We thought it'd be nice.
No one really badly wanted to Meet the Characters subforum. We thought it'd be nice.

Put it under Zoo Pen. Put it under Important Documents. Put under All About You. But from my other topic, it sounds to me like people thought it was good idea. Many already keep their RPs in a list scattered throughout journals and Zoo Pens. To me, that's proof it'd be nice to have a section for it. Where you can post and describe what your RPs are about, information on it, things like that. Where you have a lot more space than just the one post that someone might have here, someone else over there. I've already said and I'll say it again: I'd love to read people's RPs now and again, but there's almost 15 sections for RPs, with pages, and many members each. Where do I start?

I'm not even asking for a section (i.e. Zoo Pens, All About You, Wishlists, etc.), I'm asking for a subforum. And I'm suggesting it within the Feedback section because it ties in.

ToxxicRenegadeAngel wrote:And RL advice is a difficult subject, due to it's nature; if you want advice on a RL issue you can always PM another user that you feel comfortable discussing the matter with, or leave it in your journal for others to see and comment on in their journal as currently occurs.

Pickle wrote:Also, RL advice just generally seems like something... that people ask their close friends about, rather than posting it up for all to see and weigh in on.


Toxxic's point that I bolded is why I even thought of and brought up the suggestion of having a section dedicated to RL advice.

It's not unusual for members to post in their journal about what's happening to them. Phoenix has mentioned stuff about buying a car before. Nyxia's mentioned a lot of work problems. I talk about the things happening in my life. It's not unusual for members to post in their journals to share their problems.

The thing with journals is that not everyone reads them, and even then, it doesn't necessarily welcome comments or advice. What would the big difference be between someone posting in their journal saying "I don't know what to do. I need to buy this, but I'm just not sure where to start." where no one or barely anyone might be able to help; or them posting for advice and actually welcoming/asking for advice?

Not to mention, the fear of members giving false or erroneous advice can happen with or without the section. Someone can PM the person and tell them whatever they want, thinking they're right. If anything, having it in public ensures that, if the person is telling the wrong information, someone can come along and correct them.

Maybe that's because I've been on many rat groups on FB, and if it hadn't been from people asking questions and seeking advice in public on the internet, I wouldn't have learned and read what I know now, just a few months from owning my rats. Just from people asking, I know the meds they need, the things they're weak and prone to, what foods to avoid for them, toy ideas, even litter/baby advice should I ever fall into that pitfall.

It's no skin off my back if no one wants it. I'm just saying there was a certain logic to me suggesting it. Evelon is an extremely tight community; it's not massive like Reddit. So I hardly call putting my problems and my life situations on Evelon "putting them on the internet for everyone to see", as many (in general) like to call it.

Again. No skin off my back. Just saying there was logic to it.

If people want a single section, I approve implementing tags.

If there won't be any particularly close or tight supervision if the section is allowed for KS gain, I'm fine leaving it like that.

Pretty sure I touched on everything.
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Re: Feedback Forum/Section

Postby Kyrit » 03/07/2016 2:20 PM

Omnisearch wrote:And I'm confused. Why do we need to want it really badly? It doesn't need staff intervention, it doesn't need rules, it doesn't inspire flaming or rule-breaking. We have sections dedicated to Zoo Pens, we have sections dedicated to Wishlists, we have sections dedicated to wills, sections to records, sections to 'yourself' (All About You, which is honestly sort of really pointless and never being used). But I suggest a section for Roleplay Listings, RPs being the core of Evelon... and people have to want it "really badly"?

No one really badly wanted to Outline Areas. We thought it'd be nice.
No one really badly wanted to Meet the Characters subforum. We thought it'd be nice.


I can actually confirm that the Outline Areas are going to be removed, and you mentioning the Meet the Characters reminds me I forgot to add that one to my list for removal. Just waiting on a little more staff input before any of those changes are made.

My point for "Why do we need a section dedicated to RP records" is that that sort of thing is what the Important Documents section is for. Yes, it does have priority in breeding records, will, and anything else that is useful information for the staff, but it's in general for anything users would like to keep a record of. Many users already make a table of contents, linking to particular posts within their documents, so roleplay records are something that can easily be kept there. The only problem that I can see with keeping RP records in there potentially is that users have been using their documents as essentially a secondary Zoo Pen, and well, that was a user decided thing to do anyways.

Again though, if users would rather a section solely to RP records than just using the Important Documents, it can be done. I'm not opposed to just running a quick week or two week long poll to see what the preference is. I'm also fine with doing a quick poll for if users want a single forum with tags or multiple forums. I know I have my own preferences, but those should only count as a single vote when these are things that aren't going to have much staff maintenance.
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Re: Feedback Forum/Section

Postby Thunder » 03/07/2016 10:47 PM

Finally getting around to responding to this ;__; I apologize if my lack of input came off as disinterest; I have been thinking about this idea but was too weighed down with school to sit down and write a good reply. Gonna divide things into sections for the sake of organizing my thoughts.

General Thoughts
I think the idea is a fine one. As far as roleplay feedback goes specifically, I do prefer this over the roleplay spotlight idea. With the spotlight, I was concerned that it wouldn't get much attention because it would require people to go find and read through the entirety of someone else's roleplay, which is something I don't think happens a lot (though I could be wrong; it might just be me who doesn't usually read other peoples' RPs, haha). And if a user were to go find something, the first roleplays that come to mind are likely to be those that they know their friends are working on. So the potential for bias, even if unintended, is strong.

This idea is stronger to me because I think people are more inclined to respond to someone requesting help. Admittedly I'm rarely motivated to read roleplays for fun, given all the other things I'm doing in life, but if someone wants writing advice, that is something I'm happy to do.

Incentives
I like the idea of keeping them small, whether it's making the feedback area give out KS per post or doing a small, monthly raffle like Mousen suggested. That way, things won't become a competition, and people will be giving feedback primarily because they actually want to give feedback.

Length of Feedback Posts
I don't think we should be too worried about this. I trust that anyone willing to take the time and look at a piece of art/writing will be able to say something substantial about it. So unless really short, not-helpful posts become a problem, I don't think this is something we need to enforce heavily.

Help With Real Life Issues
While I see Omni's points, I also understand why people are concerned about creating drama/a negative environment. I personally wouldn't be inclined to use a feature like this -- at least for big issues -- since I only entrust specific, close friends with my problems. Maybe if the section was restricted to not so serious questions, like "should I go see this movie?", that would be better? Or, to use Omni's example, asking about rat care is certainly very different from something like "I'm being abused, please help".

Organization
I wouldn't mind subforums or tags, though I think those might inadvertently make things seem restrictive. For instance what if someone wants advice on a cosplay? Would that go under art? I'm not sure if we'd even need specific labels in the first place since I'm sure people will include what kind of advice they're looking for in the title of their threads already.

For RP Records, I think those would be out of place since records have nothing to do with feedback in my mind. They'd be better suited being in someone's pen or their important documents. I personally keep my list of active/finished RPs in my pen.
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Re: Feedback Forum/Section

Postby Silver » 03/07/2016 11:03 PM

I'm with Kyrit in not seeing the need for subforums. To me, having many subforums is more confusing and messy than not having them. Plus, it's hard to predict which subforums are needed and which wouldn't be used very much.

I wouldn't mind subforums or tags, though I think those might inadvertently make things seem restrictive. For instance what if someone wants advice on a cosplay? Would that go under art? I'm not sure if we'd even need specific labels in the first place since I'm sure people will include what kind of advice they're looking for in the title of their threads already.


Quoted because I like the way you worded this.



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Re: Feedback Forum/Section

Postby Kyrit » 03/09/2016 2:36 PM

If we do go with tags, there can also be a notice that if users feel like none of the tags fit what feedback they are looking for, they can make their own tag. I don't think a specific set of tags is necessary, so much as just making sure that users put clearly in their title what sort of feedback they are looking for.
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Re: Feedback Forum/Section

Postby Jaykobell » 03/10/2016 11:32 AM

I made a new thing for the RP records, since it keeps getting buried in other and bigger discussions.

Here's another thought I thought about: how about renaming THIS section (Suggestions) to something like Suggestions and Feedback? And then we can have a subforum specifically for member/personal/creative feedback.
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