Did you miss an update due to being away for a long time? Do you remember an old update but can't find it and want to read it again? Past updates will be contained within this forum for your viewing pleasure.

Moderator: Retired Staff

Return to Archives

What should we do with Elemental Area Attacks?

Meh, just leave them as they are.
1
9%
Use Shieba's suggestion – dude, why didn't they always work like that. 8|
10
91%
I have another idea! (Please post it~)
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 11

Postby Kyrit » 11/14/2010 9:26 PM

Ignore Kodai's system of leveling them up. Honestly I don't like that set-up either. We do want to make pyro and attacks of the like do more damage at higher levels, but yeah. Her system makes them a bit too strong at lower levels. Currently we mainly just want to know if users like AP at all so that they can actually use pyro and moves of the like more than one single time at level say.... 50. If a pet has somewhere around 80-90 health, using pyro once and then just straight up attacks all other time and possibly doing just 1 damage if they have mega high defense is going to get you nowhere.

How AP is used can easily be changed up. We just want to know if you guys would like to be able to use things more than once, which is what AP will allow.
// Pen || Wishes || Trades || Breeders \\
User avatar
Kyrit
Elie's Trashcan
Elie's Trashcan
Pets | Items
Keystones: 1590
Donate
Joined: 09/04/2007 12:33 AM

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Jaykobell » 11/14/2010 9:27 PM

It's flawed because it's extremely new. Kodai just explained this to me two days ago, and we haven't talked about it since. And like she said, numbers are tentative. The whole system is tentative.

We're changing it again because it has been a concern that battles are uneven and extremely boring. What do you do during your battles? You post... you do damage... you post... you do damage...

Do you think about the battle at all? No. It just becomes a repetitive chore, always the same cycle going round and round. I post, I do damage, I post, whoops I missed, I post, wtf I'm losing, I post, ohhay I'm winning now... So on.

And you shouldn't forget stats and Traits aren't necessary for every pet. Personally I love doing them for every pet because... I've always done it that way, I guess. But I like doing it. The problem is that we can't try to better the system without changing things, and unfortunately, Evelon is all managed manually.

And concerning Endurance, really, nothing stops us from boosting it up to like... capping at 500 and starting at 50 minimum, for example.
User avatar
Jaykobell
Retired Staff
Retired Staff
Pets | Items
Keystones: 4511
Donate
Joined: 09/04/2007 12:33 AM
Status: avatar by sleepysparrow!

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Shieba » 11/14/2010 9:34 PM

Alright, I'll ignore the numbers then.

One thing I'd like you guys to do when you implement the new system: Could you allow users to re-allocate their offense/defense/endurance points? Like...taking all they have and then distribute them freely as they wish? If you change the system so drastically, you should give users a chance to let them change their battle-pets, too, even if this defies the use of the RP-section-bonuses a bit. But suddenly finding the level 30 pet you leveled for battle and who has just the personality for it, too, useless because of a new system you couldn't forsee is cruel, yo.

(And I still like the old system. D8 No one battles with higher-leveled pets anyway, not even the tournaments are made for them. And the system works fine with the lower levels. So I lost every battle there is so far, but I still like the system BECAUSE it is simple. It's not like Pokémon where you have to distribute EVs, breed for DVs and then have a specific moveset to go against the overused sets in the metagame. Simple rules.)



I know my dreams are made of you
Of you and only for you
Your ocean pulls me under
Your voice tears me asunder
Love me before the last petal falls






However cold the wind and rain
I'll be there to ease your pain
However cruel the mirrors of sin
Remember beauty is found within




*~*~*Pen*~*~*Wishlist*~*~*Imp. Docs*~*~*
User avatar
Shieba
Well-Traveled Specialist
Well-Traveled Specialist
Pets | Items
Keystones: 213
Donate
Joined: 02/10/2009 4:08 PM
Location: Suwa Foughten Field

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Freezair » 11/14/2010 9:35 PM

Every game, no matter what it is, requires playtesting and experimentation to ensure balance. You can never predict exactly how a mechanic will work out until it's actually been used. What seems like a simple, balanced concept to begin with can actually be horribly broken, and what seems totally overpowered can actually be not that relevant. Ever if the game moves out of beta, so to speak, it can still be modified with new editions that change the rules. Think like trading card games like Magic: The Gathering. The playfield is always morphing, and changes are just something that players have to deal with.

We'll just have to keep experimenting ourselves to find something that's largely fair and as balanced as it can be. Take it from an amateur game designer, if that counts for anything. The stories I could tell...

I'm so cool (too bad I'm a loser).
I'm so smart (too bad I can't get anything figured out)!
I'm so brave (too bad I'm a baby).
I'm so fly
That's probably why it feels just like I'm falling for the first time!

I'm so green (it's really amazing).
I'm so clean (too bad I can't get all the dirt off of me)!
I'm so sane (It's driving me crazy)!
It's so strange
I can't believe I'm falling for the first time!

Critters -Ramblings - Single & Looking -Majikul Wishlist -This Stuff's Important

User avatar
Freezair
Globetrotter
Globetrotter
Pets | Items
Keystones: 80
Donate
Joined: 09/04/2007 10:20 AM
Location: A comfortable spot by the window
Status: Terrified of grade-schoolers

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Kodai » 11/14/2010 10:04 PM

I think one of the points of this change is to make people /want/ to battle with their higher-level pets. Like Shrewdie said, battles are extremely repetitive, and like Draiz said, high-level battles take a long amount of time to complete because the two combatants end up doing only a small amount of damage per turn.

About re-allocating points... Well, I'm not so sure how I feel about that, only because of base stats and what they imply. What I mean is, within the context of the Evelonian world, not all species have a similar level of toughness or attack power. A Khimera is more powerful than, say, a Florana, right?
I'm still not entirely sure why a re-allocation would be necessary, frankly. Like Draiz mentioned, my idea left extra-damage dealing attacks way too powerful at lower levels, when they should be more powerful at higher levels. If we can figure out a way to make them more powerful at higher levels without destroying the usefulness of Offense/Defense, then you shouldn't really have a need to re-allocate your stats.
That being said, I /might/ be willing to consider such a reallocation if it became necessary if you left your pets' base stats out of the Offense/Defense/Endurance point 'pool' you would create. This would at least keep your base stats intact (so that Khimeras are still more powerful than Floranas, at least in theory).

they're lesbians, harold







~1st February 2007~
House - Breeder's Listing - Trades - Art - Wishlist
User avatar
Kodai
Ultimate Explorer
Ultimate Explorer
Pets | Items
Keystones: 674
Donate
Joined: 09/01/2007 1:06 AM

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Shieba » 11/14/2010 10:21 PM

Kodai wrote:That being said, I /might/ be willing to consider such a reallocation if it became necessary if you left your pets' base stats out of the Offense/Defense/Endurance point 'pool' you would create. This would at least keep your base stats intact (so that Khimeras are still more powerful than Floranas, at least in theory).

That goes without saying. I didn't specify that because I thought it was obvious, when it seemingly was not. ^^



I know my dreams are made of you
Of you and only for you
Your ocean pulls me under
Your voice tears me asunder
Love me before the last petal falls






However cold the wind and rain
I'll be there to ease your pain
However cruel the mirrors of sin
Remember beauty is found within




*~*~*Pen*~*~*Wishlist*~*~*Imp. Docs*~*~*
User avatar
Shieba
Well-Traveled Specialist
Well-Traveled Specialist
Pets | Items
Keystones: 213
Donate
Joined: 02/10/2009 4:08 PM
Location: Suwa Foughten Field

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Kodai » 11/14/2010 10:32 PM

Oh, well, you didn't say so, so I didn't know. owo

Barring damage increase -- what do you guys think about the rate of AP increase? If you don't like what I suggested, what would your suggestions be? AP increase and damage increase can be separate if it needs to be.

they're lesbians, harold







~1st February 2007~
House - Breeder's Listing - Trades - Art - Wishlist
User avatar
Kodai
Ultimate Explorer
Ultimate Explorer
Pets | Items
Keystones: 674
Donate
Joined: 09/01/2007 1:06 AM

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Freezair » 11/14/2010 10:37 PM

Why not do some "Beta testing?" Hold some battles, testing some potential new number sets. You could even create "rental" pets specifically for that purpose. Try different levels of stats, and see which ones work best. You could get the users' help for RPing them and such. :D

I'm so cool (too bad I'm a loser).
I'm so smart (too bad I can't get anything figured out)!
I'm so brave (too bad I'm a baby).
I'm so fly
That's probably why it feels just like I'm falling for the first time!

I'm so green (it's really amazing).
I'm so clean (too bad I can't get all the dirt off of me)!
I'm so sane (It's driving me crazy)!
It's so strange
I can't believe I'm falling for the first time!

Critters -Ramblings - Single & Looking -Majikul Wishlist -This Stuff's Important

User avatar
Freezair
Globetrotter
Globetrotter
Pets | Items
Keystones: 80
Donate
Joined: 09/04/2007 10:20 AM
Location: A comfortable spot by the window
Status: Terrified of grade-schoolers

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby GrayGriffin » 11/14/2010 10:44 PM

Well, don't Pokemon have "abilities" that are constantly in effect? That's what I perceive something like Extended Claws as, especially since it doesn't explicitly mention using the claws, just that the creature has them in general.
Crossing my heart
Open wide
You're my crystal and clover
All of me
Honestly
Is dedicated to hold you

Swear to God
Double knot
What would you do if I stole you tonight? (Ahh ahh)
Why waste time? (Ahh ahh)

'Cause the world goes on without us
It doesn't matter what we do
All silhouettes with no regrets
When I'm melting into you
'Cause I belong in your arms
I belong in your arms

User avatar
GrayGriffin
Well-Traveled Trainer
Well-Traveled Trainer
Pets | Items
Keystones: 2597
Donate
Joined: 09/04/2007 1:32 AM
Location: Graduate school in Tainan
Status: Saving up for custom Lucain

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Shieba » 11/14/2010 10:52 PM

I have an idea, but it might be too hard to pull off since I can't really think of working increment levels right now.
How about having a percentage system (yeah, I know, that already is the problem because math = brainfreeze). For example, if you have "Pyro = 5% of your current AP, but a minimum of 8AP". That would make it unuseable more than once or twice at levels lower than 20, but enable a higher use rate at higher levels.



I know my dreams are made of you
Of you and only for you
Your ocean pulls me under
Your voice tears me asunder
Love me before the last petal falls






However cold the wind and rain
I'll be there to ease your pain
However cruel the mirrors of sin
Remember beauty is found within




*~*~*Pen*~*~*Wishlist*~*~*Imp. Docs*~*~*
User avatar
Shieba
Well-Traveled Specialist
Well-Traveled Specialist
Pets | Items
Keystones: 213
Donate
Joined: 02/10/2009 4:08 PM
Location: Suwa Foughten Field

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Kodai » 11/14/2010 10:54 PM

That's exactly what Extended Claws is like, Gray. That Trait (and others like it) are still static bonuses to your stats that are applied at the start of battle.
...Speaking of static bonuses, however, I should probably mention that I did have the idea to make such bonuses more useful and based on percentages, so that you're not still just getting a +4 bonus at level 50.

...Hay look Shieba's mentioning percentages now. o  wo That's funny that you mention that now. XD But hmm, that's something we should definitely look into.

they're lesbians, harold







~1st February 2007~
House - Breeder's Listing - Trades - Art - Wishlist
User avatar
Kodai
Ultimate Explorer
Ultimate Explorer
Pets | Items
Keystones: 674
Donate
Joined: 09/01/2007 1:06 AM

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Shieba » 11/14/2010 11:01 PM

I like that static bonuses are about to be kept. o3o

If percentages are too complicated to be used and we have to work with a static system, maybe we just have to adjust the AP cost instead of making the system too complicated. Say your pet starts out with 10AP and gains 5 more every 5 levels. That's the system used in the earlier examples and it was kinda bad for my pet I used as example. But what if we make Pyro cost 10AP? Then it's only useable once until level 20, at which point most pets have a higher Endurance. At level 50, where pets are supposed to do less damage (I've never seen a battle of pets higher leveled than 15 here...), that would equal five uses or 25 damage when everything hits, which isn't too shabby. But I'd like percentages more, yus. o3o



I know my dreams are made of you
Of you and only for you
Your ocean pulls me under
Your voice tears me asunder
Love me before the last petal falls






However cold the wind and rain
I'll be there to ease your pain
However cruel the mirrors of sin
Remember beauty is found within




*~*~*Pen*~*~*Wishlist*~*~*Imp. Docs*~*~*
User avatar
Shieba
Well-Traveled Specialist
Well-Traveled Specialist
Pets | Items
Keystones: 213
Donate
Joined: 02/10/2009 4:08 PM
Location: Suwa Foughten Field

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Kodai » 11/14/2010 11:08 PM

I was saying that we (I?) were considering making static bonuses into percentage-based ones. o wo; They'll still be bonuses, though, as opposed to 'attacks', if that was the part you were agreeing with? o wo

Yes yes, we like percentages, too. o wo We just don't know how much everyone else likes them. XD; However, what we could possibly do is have a chart like the Posts Per Level chart (the one that tells you how many posts equal what level). It could list what certain percentages of certain numbers are, if people really don't want to look up an online calculator to figure it out themselves. oPo

they're lesbians, harold







~1st February 2007~
House - Breeder's Listing - Trades - Art - Wishlist
User avatar
Kodai
Ultimate Explorer
Ultimate Explorer
Pets | Items
Keystones: 674
Donate
Joined: 09/01/2007 1:06 AM

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby Shieba » 11/14/2010 11:13 PM

Kodai wrote:I was saying that we (I?) were considering making static bonuses into percentage-based ones. o wo; They'll still be bonuses, though, as opposed to 'attacks', if that was the part you were agreeing with? o wo

Yes, that's the part I liked. If we end up with a million attacks, that would make choosing battle traits horribly difficult. I like it simple.

Maybe we could work a restriction in there, too? Like, you can't choose more than two Trait-attacks? I know AP would limit them already, but I'd like to see them a bit restricted. I don't know...

And yes, I love percentages. I got an F in percentages at school, but they make me feel all nerdy and stuff. 8B



I know my dreams are made of you
Of you and only for you
Your ocean pulls me under
Your voice tears me asunder
Love me before the last petal falls






However cold the wind and rain
I'll be there to ease your pain
However cruel the mirrors of sin
Remember beauty is found within




*~*~*Pen*~*~*Wishlist*~*~*Imp. Docs*~*~*
User avatar
Shieba
Well-Traveled Specialist
Well-Traveled Specialist
Pets | Items
Keystones: 213
Donate
Joined: 02/10/2009 4:08 PM
Location: Suwa Foughten Field

Re: .:Battle Trait Update Opinion Poll!:.

Postby GrayGriffin » 11/14/2010 11:14 PM

Well, most of the pets who participated in the war are kind of crazy-leveled and high-statted, since the training area would give +2 to every stat.
Crossing my heart
Open wide
You're my crystal and clover
All of me
Honestly
Is dedicated to hold you

Swear to God
Double knot
What would you do if I stole you tonight? (Ahh ahh)
Why waste time? (Ahh ahh)

'Cause the world goes on without us
It doesn't matter what we do
All silhouettes with no regrets
When I'm melting into you
'Cause I belong in your arms
I belong in your arms

User avatar
GrayGriffin
Well-Traveled Trainer
Well-Traveled Trainer
Pets | Items
Keystones: 2597
Donate
Joined: 09/04/2007 1:32 AM
Location: Graduate school in Tainan
Status: Saving up for custom Lucain

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


cron