[Kodai]

The new Battle Trait system is ready to be released! Now don't panic, because Shrewdie has saved all the old parameters, and we're going to test the new system with a tournament series! If there's anything that you'd like to test, make a note of it here.

Now, just what has changed?

Battle Traits now have certain descriptors, like the Personal Traits. Here's the rundown:
One-Use (One-time use; it needs to be stated.)
Automatic (Automatically applies to the battle.)
Activate (Multiple use; it needs to be stated.)
One-Hit (Trait can be used until it hits; it needs to be stated.)
Dependent (Its use depends on certain conditions or other Traits.)
AP (Trait can only be used by paying the AP cost. If a pet does not have the required amount, the Trait cannot be used.)

Pets start out with 10 AP and gain 5 every 5 levels, as such:
1-4: 10
5-9: 15
10-14: 20
15-19: 25
etc.

Traits that gave static bonuses that were changed to percentages are being changed back to static bonuses. However, the bonuses they give will increase with level. Please look at the specific Traits to see how the bonuses increase.

Remember, we're going to have tournaments to test this system, so don't bash it until we find something wrong with it. 8D;

[Freezair]

Oooh! This looks intriguing... Can't wait to play in the tourney!

[Thunder]

Quick question on the percentage-based stat gains. One of my female Lucain has 9 Defense. 4% of 9 is .36, which isn't a really significant increase at all. Would this be rounded to the next highest whole number or something?

[Shieba]

I agree with Thunder that this is something that probably needs tweaking before a tournament. Offense/Defense has been weakened in importance thanks to the defense-ignoring skills anyway. At low levels, these moves are now easily fatal and battles will go much quicker. Coupled with the fact that the percentage traits now do close to nothing .36 compared to 4 from before? Laughable! This even holds true for 8% - it doesn't make a difference if you have a 4% trait or a 8% trait at low levels at all. Think about it - to get the former +8 bonus out of it, you need to have over 80 in that stat! That's just...crazy. I know I was all for the percentages, but I didn't know it'd be a number-to-percentage change. This seems faulty because if anything, offense and defense should be enhanced to make things balanced instead of hampered even more. There is no reason for anyone to pick these traits up for any pet below a very high level (50 or higher, even when you level in offense/defense raising areas).

[Jaykobell]

If the percentages are that ridiculous, all we need to do is go over the list and increase them. Either that, or we could use another system as well. Something like, 'This does your level +/- (X)'.

I'd also proposed to include stats that decrease your opponent's or increase yours (think Growl and Tail Whip and friends from Pokemon), but those stats would cost an attack turn (as in, you can't decrease your enemy's Defense and attack the same turn). They would include other effects like Sound Wave's confusion effect, just on a wider spectrum (again, think Pokemon). I don't think anyone said anything about that idea? ... Did I say anything about that in public? |:

But yeah, point is, like we've said: we'll have tournaments to test it all up, and we're welcome to changes. So don't panic. xP

Maybe something like ~15% could work at places. 9 x 0,15 = 1,35, which is already better. And Thunder, is she level 1? Keep in mind we've changed the entry system as well. We'll go by stat gaps instead of levels. So for N tournament, only pets that have between (and including) X and Y in Z stat can enter, regardless of level.

[Shieba]

Looking at it now, I think the old stat increasing system wasn't all that bad. Can't we just have it back? +8 was a suitable amount, no matter if your offense was 5 or 100. I think the problem with percentages is that at low levels, they do nothing and at high levels, they're ridiculously overpowered. I think just for realism purposes, this idea of mine probably wasn't all that bright to begin with.

I think you told us about that idea, yes, Shrewdie. I commented on it, too. As I said before, I like it simple. Look at the Pokémon metagame, there are essays about how every moveset for every Pokémon must look like to have a chance. I don't really want that in Evelon. I was so happy how simple the battle system was here and now it's already gotten way more complicated. Just because of this, I'm not that big of a friend of your idea. I don't want to spend hours over developing strategies and movesets...

[Freezair]

You can't know whether or not something will work until it's been given a chance. Deeeep healthing breaths all around, I think.

[Jaykobell]

In that case, I take it we should have tests that include the system with percentages, and the system with static numbers? I'm planning on hosting small tournaments of 4 battlers, so they go by faster. While we were thinking about putting prizes, I'm personally not for it anymore (though I didn't see anything wrong with that before), since these tournaments might demonstrate enormous flaws. This means you might get unlucky and get PWN'd because of something we hadn't thought about, or because it just didn't work. It'd be similar to abusing a 'glitch'.

I'm admittedly not a fan of those attacks either, Shieba. xD Whenever I play, moves like Tail Whip and Growl are defo the first ones to go. But I proposed them because some people mentioned the battle system is rather mind-numbing and redundant. You attack, hit/miss, they attack, hit/miss, you attack, hit/miss, they attack, hit/miss... So on, and so forth. This makes battles somewhat predictable, and not very exciting.

I'd also thought of weather effects. Meaning, at times, you might get slammed with a Blizzard, so if you don't have Snowshoe (or whichever stat prevents you from being hindered by snow), you'll get your Speed cut. They could turn the battle around, depending on the effects of the weather.

[Shieba]

I'm all for super-small prizes. Like a toy from the toy shop. (Isn't the contest for the toys over since months? Is there no way this will get judged soon so we could have happy new toys as prizes?) o3o It would be cute without being a real prize you could do stuff with.

Haha, I get rid of these attacks, too. 8D And I kinda like mindless battles. Because I like simple. I really enjoyed the old system because of it. But I'm all for hosting these small tournaments~

Wouldn't weather make the Blizzard Trait redundant, though? I like the idea, but is this really doable outside of Traits? I mean, I'd be like "Hey, everyone is sitting in the arena and watching! And wow, there's a tornado! And now a blizzard, people! Hope the spectators are chained to their seats!" You know? It's not like Aldrect gets frequently visited by random weather changing every few moves. XD;

[Kodai]

This is why we make posts. ~

Frankly, it's only a number-to-percentage change because... no one else suggested numbers and I had no idea what to make them. -staaaares at Shrewdie/Draiz- I still like the idea of percentages, though, because of the fact that they'll make higher-level battles go faster. Having the best battles occur with /low/-level pets seems strange. I mean, pets won't stay at those levels forever if you RP with them, and why would you be battling the pet if you're not interested in the character/RPing with it? But like we said, we'd like to try both ideas out, and if percentages really don't work, I can look into making those bonuses increase with level so that they're not useless at higher levels (in the manner that Pyro increases in damage at higher levels).

Also I do like Shrewdie's idea of Tail Whip/Growl moves. I just never talk about them because I have to sit down and make them. P= I honestly don't think you'd need to worry about spending hours making movesets, Shieba... Evelon, unlike Pokemon, isn't just about battling. It's about the characters. Traits should be chosen that make sense for the character. To just try to stack Traits on a pet so that it can win any battle shouldn't be what Battle Traits are for. =/

I do agree with Shieba that random weather effects is a little strange and would make Blizzard/Sandstorm redundant. What I could maybe do is make more Traits that cause weather effects? Or we could have arenas in different areas where these weather effects could occur naturally (Basantha/Wilt'no).

[Shieba]

Kodai, I'm not sure if I understood you completely (English + 4am in Germany = Bad), but I like the idea of fixed numbers increasing with levels like Pyro's damage does. That seems very fair and would make Traits equal again. I agree that having the best battles at higher levels is realistic and good - the problem I have with percentages is that at the lower levels, they make these Traits useless and offense/defence useless as well since battles will, obviously, decided by Pyro and other defense-ignoring Traits which do more than normal attacking would thanks to attack being way down thanks to no increasing through traits anymore.

Also, natural weather effects in locations = Yes!

And yes, Traits should be about the character. But I like to have at least one or two pets able to win battles? I have a lot of pets with Pacifist, for example, but that won't win me a tournament. And tournament prizes are nice. And I'd like a shot at them. So for at least a few pets, I have to make complicated movesets which already got more difficult thanks to the update now.

Also, Kodai? With all the testing and changes going on, if Freezies idea about rental pets for testing tournaments doesn't go through, could you make Battle Traits unrestricted for the testing period? It seems too much work to apply for them now when nothing's certain right now.

[Kodai]

Yes, you understand what I mean. I think I like this idea better, too, because... I don't like math. :c -talks to Mod-y peoples-

Well, I understand having a battle-oriented character, and that winning tournaments (and prizes) is nice. o wo I just don't want people to focus just on battling. I hope you don't find making movesets incredibly frustrating, because I don't want it to be that way. I also don't want there to be no strategy, because that would make things incredibly boring and tedious for everyone. =/ I'm trying to find a balance between strategy and fun.

Oh, uh, rentals. o wo Shrewdie just told me about it today. That seems like a neat idea. :3 My original thought was to have you use your pets with movesets that you wanted to test out, but rental pets could work, too. I wouldn't make you apply for Restricted Traits just for the purpose of testing, no.

NOTE: OHAY GAIZ I think I'm going to kick percent-based bonuses. 8D; Because. ...I can. >C I will implement the idea stated above.

[Freezair]

I think it's worth testing both, though, in battles. One might be more balanced than the other. I think it'd be silly to just kick this idea totally without giving it any testing at all. :/ I mean, you're still going to have to do math to figure out bonuses and what the most balanced form is. Really, the lack of testing for any of this is the big problem here.

Honestly, I have long meant to make an Evelon battle calculator, available to everyone who uses Windows (the program I uses runs on DirectX, so sorry, Mac peeps ), but I can't do that until a battle system gets put into place that's more permanent. XD

[Shieba]

I think things are on a good way now if the new idea gets approved. Yay! And making movesets would be less frustrating if we could get the majority of new traits added in the test period. You added so many battle traits...I have to look all over again. Right now, that I make no movesets, that's fine, but if that keeps up after the testing period is over, this would mean new movesets every few weeks to stay updated and that's not good.

But yah, my own pets with free-picked movesets would work nicely, too. But rentals sound good. I like that idea, especially since people could pit two of the same rental pets against each other. Then we would see how much strategy really decides.

[Freezair]

Personally, I'm going to fight hard for testing everything (percents, fixed, whatever). The lack of any sort of beta has been the biggest downfall here, and the more I think about it, the more baffled I am by the fact that we've never betaed any battle system before. o.o;