After reading the post below concerning the breeding reform, what do you think?

[Moofius]

And to continue with the "you can only have one" I think Diosol should be put under this sort of rule. Not only for simplicity but so it's fair. All of these breedings make customs (compared to kuhna which are pre determined colouration/species) so they should be treated similarly.

[Redd]

I'm supporting the new method if some points suggested here ('you can only have one type of room', combination system etc etc) are taken under serious consideration. Since, I believe a good number of proposed ideas would work in favour of the new system - though the kuhna room release style I couldn't particularly care for since it increases the tendency to snipe. I also agree with the dual system because it caters to both, timezones and budget, and offsets some of the 'people who always get the rooms' actually... getting the rooms. I also HEAVILY agree with the one type of room and one room per restock rule, because it allows more people to actually get a room, who wouldn't normally be able to get a room.
That said, I do believe the 'I'm broke/poor/can't afford it' reason is somewhat redundant since this is a roleplaying site - you make money by simply roleplaying (and I know for a fact one of the mods key goals is to encourage people to start properly roleplaying more), and it could encourage people to share keys to reduce the cost. Possibly. Off topic but I admit there are flaws in that statement; the only reason why I only do self Diosol breedings is because I don't think people would actually want to go halves, and since I paid RL money for it, I want to make full use of it myself.
However in addition to the previous points. The posts that are made could potentially cover the cost of the 'key'. So that's my two cents, if it means anything at all. And. dsaALKJASDKJAK. If it makes any sense at all. :C

[Mojave]

I like the raffle system because it keeps the value of bred cain and gon high since we can't breed all that much. I also like it cuz we get the bigger litter sizes.

However, I do support the item idea because
1) we can actually get our licenses
2) we actually need breeder's listings again
3) who doesn't like breeding their pets??!

The one thing I'm not sure about: If we're buying the breeding items, do we still get the 1000ks and custom cain/gon when we get our A license?

However, if the items are now purchaseable, there should be a one item per person rule. If you have a diosol breeding boost, no lucain or gon. If you have a lucain boost, no paragon or diosol. If you have a paragon boost, no diosol or lucain. This keeps the people rolling in dough from monopolizing the breeding area, which gives more people the chance to breed at any given time. I also support the rule that you can't hoard the boosts but have to use the one you chose to purchase before you can buy a different one. The downside to this rule is it forces people to finish their breedings before two weeks if they want to breed multiple pairs so you mods might have more litters to do than any other way.

[Kyrit]

We have already discussed it, and if we do go with this method there will still be raffles on occassion. The stipulation to the raffles though is that since they'll be running alongside the new system, you'll only be able to enter if you haven't bought/had a key within a certain(undecided yet since all of this is still up for grabs) amount of time. So basically the raffles will only be for people who have absolutely terrible luck at grabbing keys. Still, I don't think we're going to have an issue of running out of keys if we release 10 at once(of each type is what I've meant) and only allow people to get one of each type or one period. You've all seen just how fast even the cheapest giftbox was being taken off the shelves when I stocked 3-5 of them. If we limited the availability to just one key per release altogether, I doubt we're going to be releasing 10 of each key just to be hit with 20 rooms all at once.

I'm personally against not letting people accumulate their keys and just use them when they have time, but we are reading all suggestions and taking them to heart, seeing what people want the most if we were to go with this idea. Though it does seem like you guys sometimes want a few too many restrictions. If we have a ton of restrictions that's more excuse for us to release keys in smaller batches in hopes we don't get bombarded. Either way, there are plenty of ways to regulate the keys so that the same people aren't getting them and keeping others from being able to. I can't say as much about the BBs. Those aren't our territory. Those are fully under Baal's control.

As far as Mojave's question goes, yes. You'll still get the normal prize for reaching a rank A license.


Mostly just a post to say, "Yes. We're reading, and yes. Most of your thoughts have been considered."

[Silverin]

I have been considering this and thinking it over a bit.

Things I like:

1: I like the decrease in litter size, cause when I breed and I end up with 3 pups for a large littler I feel a little over whelmed by how many there are, that and I am a picky person so I end up selling most of them. The ones I do keep boggle my mind and I find it hard to come up with an idea for them.

2: One room per restock rule. Yes this will regulate the rooms soo the people who sell more pets, rp more or buy a lot of GT, don't just monopolize the rooms. Besides you can always get another one in the next restock.

3: You can hoard them cause I my self may not want to use them all at once, cause real life is a pain and my muse is as dead as a door nail most of the time. You can hoard many of any kind.

4: You CAN NOT use all of the Keys your hoarding at the same time and you can only use lucain or paragon. Not both at the same time.

5: Keep the raffles for the people whom just have bad luck and have it be that they can only enter a raffle if they did not have a key over the past 2 months? Maybe if that sounds reasonable.


Things I Dislike:

1: That Cost, there are a few reasons why I dislike it. Mostly because I am far slower than I use to be.
Its not impossible though, takes only 30 posts to get it and is perfectly reasonable considering the explosion of stray babies. (lol that would actually make a good plot/event and have the babies grow up all scruffy)

So its not something I can really argue

Thats all I have to say or have in mind at this time.

[ToxicShadow]

I think to find a common ground in holding onto your keys, so to say, is...perhaps to say, "you can only have like 5 total," or something similar. But then, I just realized, that putting a limiting rule would then make more work for you guys. If it means more work, perhaps a limiting rule is the not the best idea at all.

[Freezair]

For the benefit of Draiz (mostly), allow me to explain why I am in favor of the "you can own one key period" rule:

1. Owning a key is basically the same thing as owning a room. The time limit is increased, and you can start it whenever, but you still basically "have" a room once you have a key. The running rule on rooms is that you can only be in one room at a time. So it makes sense to me to extend that to the keys, since, although the timing is changed, they're still much the same thing.

2. Flood control. Not allowing hoards will prevent people from doing rooms bam-bam-bam, one right after another, so there's more work to be done. Although all ten people who buy all the keys from a release could theoretically do their rooms all at once, if the pressure is off, I don't believe that will be the case.

3. Probably the main reason I am in favor of this (aside from the fact that it ensures more people will be in the rooms) is economic control. Let's face it: There will be people who buy keys primarily to sell them. People do it with Breeder Boosts now, and they do it with the Kuhna Room releases. If the keys disappear quickly because people are buying them up to sell, then their value goes up dramatically because, instead of the shop price (which for the sellers is more of the investment fee), their value becomes whatever people are willing to pay for them. If people can hoard keys, these sellers can make themselves an immense profit by collecting keys and reselling them to people for greatly increased prices, which makes the rooms much harder to come by for people without money.

The second part is that, because rooms are in such high demand, people will pay large amounts for one, and it will probably be in Goddess Tears. For those of us who can only use KS, it is really difficult to compete with Goddess Tears. I'm in a good five or six RPs right now, which are active, but I still accumulate KS at a much slower rate than someone who has RL$-bought customs or other shop goodies to sell for KS, and of course, because everyone wants Goddess Tears, their willingness to put real money into Evelon means they basically can swing the market however they like and accumulate goods due to their spending capabilities. This means that, should they desire it, these people who can accquire Goddess Tears all they like can hoard and accumulate keys, which not only jacks up the market price and makes the keys very difficult to come by for those who miss a restock, but it means the people who create that jacked-up price can potentially lock others out of keys and create a feedback loop wherein they are, again, they same people who keep getting keys over and over again.

This was also why I suggested making the keys non-purchaseable with Goddess Tears. This is a RPing site, but there is no RPing involved in obtaining GT. If you have the disposable income and the ability to buy things online (which a number of our younger members lack), you can just get a few. Using KS at least encourages people to RP more. Sure, people can just sell GT and GT-bought items, but that's a longer process and prevents people from just instantly snatching them up with their disposable money.

[Moofius]

Freezy would be a good  politician because she presents her case well and I think is looking out for the site.;P; Even though I am KS poor (and will prolly remain that way unless I RP more) I am in agreement with all things said here, by Freezy. ;u; <3

[Chayden]

And I'm agreeing with Moofie in agreeing with Freezair. I can definitely see the whole "buying keys just to sell them" thing happening even if there is a limit on how many keys you can buy, though I don't see why you/we shouldn't be able to stockpile our keys if only one can be bought per release.

[Jaykobell]

If people don't want to let others hoard the keys, personally, I want to abort the switch. If there's ONE reason why I want to switch (and even proposed it to Baal to begin with) is because I want to be able to hoard them. I don't buy BBs to hoard and then to go 'olololol buy dem twice their price!' later. I buy them as a precaution if I have breedings to do.

I also breed for plot first, babies second.

It's like saying you can't have more than Eternal Love Elixir without using your first one. It's an item. It makes no sense. By restricting it, people will rush and will all use their keys ASAP so that they can catch another restock whenever it happens. That will just flood the breeding area with rooms all over the place.

I don't like restricting buying to only ONE type of key, but eh. I suppose it's fair.

And while I do honestly agree with your points, Freezair: again, 150KS is cheap. So is $5, but I know that personally, I would rather spend the 150KS than the $5. I'd like to remind that the BB v1, which is also $5, costs 750KS, in comparison. 150KS is very affordable, and now that we have the GTs as an official currency accumulative on the forums, nothing stops you from selling KS for GTs or vice versa. It's no longer a currency that is 'only' for the PayPal members. They're still new, so they're not all around quite yet, but in due time, they will be; and with that, it'll become easier to obtain them.

And, again. 150KS is affordable. You're far from being rich at that amount. If we wanted to price them at the same price, roughly, as the v1? Sure, I'd say it's unfair; I'd rather pay $5 than 750KS. But 150KS? I'll buy a key for that rather than $5.

And I don't agree with the whole reselling. Why? Because people already do it. And rooms are free. Dirt-cheap. You enter a raffle for 15KS and someone people get customs or randoms out of it, or huge amounts of KS. Why would it change because people buy keys instead? And it goes without saying, but you shouldn't even buy them just to resell. But to each their own I guess.

Too long, didn't read: I want to be able to hoard them, don't agree with 'only one key of ONE type per restock' but will live with it, and while I agree with the currency topic, I don't agree with making them KS-only.

[Thunder]

I also don't really see a big point to making them KS only..? Though I'm kind of dumb when it comes to economic problems P=

And I really think there's no way to stop reselling, unfortunately ._. Unless there's a rule that says "no reselling", but that seems too restrictive.

[ToxicShadow]

I think rather than trying to put a huge amount of restrictions on this, we should sort of be happy to have the possible opportunity to make breeding more common than it is now. The most restricting I would be fine with is just saying, "Okay, during each restock, you can only get one of either type." Which was the same for rooms.

I, too, see no real point in making them ks-only. Because, honestly, I doubt I will be forking over $5 unless it is a super special plot breeding I want to get done right away and I somehow don't have the ks.

[Kitsumi]

For the record, I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to hoard them. If you notice, most people who hoard Breeders Boosts actually do use them themselves. Plus, with the new "keys" in tact, from what I understand there will be rooms coming out much for often, which would make people spending fortune on buying keys from other people less likely since there will be a better chance of them getting one themselves. I personally know that if I were to hoard keys, there's no way I would sell any of them, I have dozens of breedings planned! I know that many people are the same - with plot breedings, and breedings looking for certain colors/markings in offspring, most people actually use the rooms themselves. The few topics I've seen of people selling or trading rooms have either been because they wanted the other type of room, or they realized that they didn't have the time to do the breeding themselves. With the keys, if they did realize they didn't have the time to do the breeding at that current time, they could save the key and do it later. Plus, breeding times would be increased, so it would be much easier to finish the breeding within the current time limit.

So in short - hoarding keys would actually be helpful in my opinion, and would have no ill effects from what I can see.

And also, I totally agree with what Shrewd said in keeping them available for money/GT - you can easily trade ks for GT once it becomes more available, or sell pets/items for GT. Even people without much real money to spend should be able to get some in one way or another.

[Freezair]

The goal of enacting change is not to bend the rules in favor of one or two people. A leader's job is not to change things so that they please and benefit them and them specifically. A leader's job to his or her people is to find a system that provides the greatest benefit to the greatest number of people. A system under consideration should be evaluated to see if it provides these benefits to as many people as possible. And it is both disrespectful and shameful for any adult--let alone one in charge--to throw up their hands like a child and say, "You kids don't wanna play my way, so I'm just gonna take my toys and go home!" Compromise is essential to any decision-making process. An inability to compromise has left the real world in a confused shambles where twenty percent of the adult population can't hold a job. If a bunch of big men in suits can't get their s#!% together about how to run countries full of millions of people (not an easy job), what can we say about ourselves if we can't come to a decision about how to run a site with 60-odd active members without whining about how we don't want to do something because it's not what we want?

I've done my fair share of breeding rooms. Heck, I've done more than my fair share. I used to be a world-class room sniper back in the day. But I acknowledge that I can't do rooms all the time. Evelon is full of people who want new pets and pretty pixels to look at. And you know what? In the grand scheme of things, pixels is pixels. You can't get a put it in your resume how many differently-colored digital wolves you own. You can't impress people at a party with stories of your vast digital dragon hoard. So why make it such serious business? Why strive for such an accumulation of wealth? I argue for the one-key-per-type rule because it is my belief that that will ensure the greatest number of people have the opportunity to obtain keys, without economically driving the price up.

And while it may be true that Goddess Tears "are for everyone," since they're easier to trade, the fact remains that the primary generators of Goddess Tears in the community are those people with disposable incomes which they are willing and able to spend online. Because all the GT are coming from them, they tend to accumulate greater quantities of wealth without participating in site-related activities because they control the market on GT, as it were. And because GT are so valuable, the people who are not these GT generators will be less willing to trade them, since people generally only purchase GT if they intend to pump them directly into site shops. Since Evelon is supposed to be a break from the real world, I feel as if real world economic factors should not play such a heavy role in its economy. Aside from a few events (such as the RE2 hunts), we do very little to actually reward active roleplaying on this site, and the actual wealth tends to end up more in the hands who can spend lots of real-world money. It's frustrating to me that I have seen numerous people who are good fun as roleplayers drift away because they feel they cannot compete with the people who can buy a million customs and can offer huge sums to buy breeding rooms and other useful items off people.

And to address one minor point, I don't feel that an Eternal Love Elixir is a comperable item to a breeding key because buying an Eternal Love Elixir, in and of itself, does not grant you anything. Although its effect is permanent, that effect means nothing unless you can obtain another, separate item, that being the breeding room (or keys). Its only effect is within that realm of breeding rooms, and it offers nothing outside of them. The ELE does not give you further goods to trade such as pups or hatchlings, and it only effects one pet. It's the room itself that provides pups/kits/hatchlings, and you have the ability to get multiples of them.

[Kyrit]

We have come to a decision, and based on the fact that most people are either for this or are for a dual system(which we said we did approve with stipulations of our own) we are going to implement this feature. Keys obviously aren't going to be posted right this minute or even tonight since it's late for all the mods, but we will work on getting this feature up and running soon. To begin with, we will not implement all of the restrictions suggested here, but we will at least be starting out with light restrictions on who can buy how many/when/whatever. IF we see a problem arising with only a select few getting all of the keys, we will start to slowly work in other restrictions to see how we can balance it best. We feel as though it's better not to overly complicate things from the get-go and we'd like to see how smoothly things can run with as few restrictions.

For those worried about the prices, nothing has been set in stone. I just spoke to Shrewd in the irc moments ago saying that we might even think of making the price something like 125 KS or 6 GT, meaning that it would be more beneficial to use your forum currency. Also, remember that we don't sell KS from the giftshop anymore, so maybe if you'd like to make some GT you could always gather a lot of KS from a roleplay and offer to sell it to people for GT. There's no rule against that after all.

Anyways, I am going to lock this topic now to prevent any unneeded complaints about not putting super restrictions or still using GT. As I've said, we will test the waters and see how we can make this system work best.