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.:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby Kyrit » 05/20/2016 12:40 AM

With a heavy heart, after much discussion, the Evelon staff has decided that we are going to close the Outpost section of the forums - Morey included. The feature was designed for Morey to help newbies and for A rank license holders to have a special area to trade pets and sometimes get fancy pets to keep or trade there. We rarely have new members though, and even when a user sets up an Outpost interest in it seems to die off fairly quickly.

We didn't leave A license holders who had an Outpost up empty handed though, as they were sent a random pet and a random non-breedable token for all their troubles. Additionally, while this may be the end for the Outposts, it might possibly open the doors for future incentives for getting to that A rank license! We are not making any promises, but the staff are currently considering other forum based privileges for A rank license holders. That said, if you have your own suggestion of nice incentives that you don't think will give license holders an heavy advantages, feel free to hit up the suggestion board. ;)
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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby Mojave » 05/20/2016 2:41 AM

What about those of us that have A Licenses but never set up the outpost because of how ineffective they were? I can't help but feel those few who had outposts up and are now getting a random and token are getting the full rewards for working for their licenses when those of us that didn't, in my opinion, waste our time, are now just SOL. :/

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A difficult beast feasting on burnt down trees
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And how it is a door that holds back contents
That makes Pandora's box contents look non-violent
Behind my eyelids are islands of violence
My mind ship-wrecked this is the only land my mind could find
I did not know it was such a violent island
Full of tidal waves, suicidal crazed lions
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And I know that I can fight, or I can let the lion win
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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby Kyrit » 05/20/2016 11:13 AM

Random customs were only ever sent to those with open outposts, so the staff viewed it the same way with sending out the random customs this time. When we implement any potential new A license incentives those will be open to anyone with an A license.





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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby Omnisearch » 05/20/2016 12:22 PM

I can see the logic, but I do admit I feel like Mojave has a good point. Honestly, the logic is sort of moot, since I don't recall... anyone getting random pets in many years.

Although the new incentives will be given to all Rank A licensees, I feel like Mojave has a point. If you think about it, some of us had Outposts that dated back to many, many years ago... And they've been inactive since. It's a little like not having an Outpost, right? And like Mojave said, there was really no point in opening an outpost when the section was quite literally dead. Freezair's looked pretty good, but I don't think even hers got any interest.

It's a pretty minimal compensation (compared to GT or say, an Elixir of Fertility), so I wouldn't see the harm in giving it to everybody.




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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby Mojave » 05/20/2016 1:20 PM

I can see the logic behind not getting a custom or custom token since it is compensation to those who did waste their time. But I feel those of us that didn't open a trading post should still get something because it's not our fault the outposts didn't work. :/ And now, whenever the new prize is decided on, those who got the customs and tokens are going to be able to cash that in as well, thus some of us are not going to get the full compensation for, in some cases, years of work.

I am not as fine as I seem
Pardon, me for yelling and telling you green gardens
Are not what's growing in my psyche, it's a different me
A difficult beast feasting on burnt down trees
Freeze frame, please let me paint a mental picture portrait
Something you won't forget, it's all about my forehead
And how it is a door that holds back contents
That makes Pandora's box contents look non-violent
Behind my eyelids are islands of violence
My mind ship-wrecked this is the only land my mind could find
I did not know it was such a violent island
Full of tidal waves, suicidal crazed lions
They're trying to eat me, blood running down their chin
And I know that I can fight, or I can let the lion win
I begin to assemble what weapons I can find
'Cause sometimes to stay alive you gotta kill your mind
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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby Freezair » 05/20/2016 1:32 PM

With regards to the argument, I did get something in reward for getting my A license even if I never opened up a trading post. I got boatloads of new Lucain I didn't have before since I bred them, I got loads of KS for getting the license, and I also got a custom Lucain. The effort of getting your license already generates loads of prizes for those who go out of their way to get it, the new breedables you get among them.

And honestly, there was more than just a "time investment" involved in running an Outpost. It also included a willingness to give away pets cheaper and with less monetary gain, since I think most pets traded for there were done with the intent of making them easy to get for newbies or people who wanted cool pets to get good stories instead of just going into someone's collection. Moreso than just a privilege of rank, it was a show of good will towards the community. I see this as being as much about rewarding the people who used their license to try and be generous (even if others never participated) than it is about giving Rank A more rewards.

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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby ToxicShadow » 05/20/2016 1:50 PM

Just to clarify, no users got a custom token, they received a random token. Thus, all the pets and tokens given out, were randoms, although some got randoms based off of information from their wishlists, if they listed anything viable.

Regardless of whether Outposts worked well or not, those that made Outposts were rewarded for their efforts in making one and trying to make it work. We weren't specifically looking to not reward those that didn't make one, but it was simply as Kyrit put it. If you did not ever create an Outpost, you were not eligible to receive random pets. That is, if you created an Outpost, you would, very randomly, be sent totally random pets from time to time, which could then either be traded or kept. You had to have created an Outpost for this; not having one was essentially opting out of the reward, as you would not ever be sent random pets without an Outpost. Thus, the rewards were essentially each Outpost holder receiving random pets for the very last time. We were not about to close down the Outposts without sending out a last round of random pets.

We're considering what other rewards can be given out to replace the removal of Outposts, which everyone would be eligible for without other criteria. If you have specific suggestions as to what you may like, then please go ahead and suggest them.

Any Outpost holders that would like their Outposts moved from the Graveyard to the Advertise section, please let me know. I will likely be moving mine so that it can still operate as a unique trade thread.
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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby Thunder » 05/20/2016 1:57 PM

Freezair wrote:With regards to the argument, I did get something in reward for getting my A license even if I never opened up a trading post. I got boatloads of new Lucain I didn't have before since I bred them, I got loads of KS for getting the license, and I also got a custom Lucain. The effort of getting your license already generates loads of prizes for those who go out of their way to get it, the new breedables you get among them.

And honestly, there was more than just a "time investment" involved in running an Outpost. It also included a willingness to give away pets cheaper and with less monetary gain, since I think most pets traded for there were done with the intent of making them easy to get for newbies or people who wanted cool pets to get good stories instead of just going into someone's collection. Moreso than just a privilege of rank, it was a show of good will towards the community. I see this as being as much about rewarding the people who used their license to try and be generous (even if others never participated) than it is about giving Rank A more rewards.


This is more or less the staff team's reasoning. People are already rewarded for getting A licenses. They receive a fairly large amount of KS plus a custom/Kuhna breed of choice/EoF, so it's not like they're not rewarded for their breeding work (and as previously stated, we're working on adding even more bonuses for owning an A license). However, it was never mandatory for people with A licenses to open an Outpost, and it was always the case that only people with Outposts were eligible to receive random customs to either keep or put in their outposts. The broader category of A license owners never had this privilege. Furthermore, Outposts were primarily intended to make acquiring special pets easier for newbies; therefore, the creation of an Outpost was a sort of charitable act. The point is, people who created Outposts did some extra work that was meant to help the community, and that is what the staff team has decided to reward.

Did the Outposts end up working? No. Quite frankly it's easier than ever for newbies to obtain breedables, customs, etc., so the Outposts have lost their primary function. But the people who started Outposts at least tried to make an effort to make them work, and that's what matters the most.
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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby Omnisearch » 05/20/2016 3:23 PM

I still agree with Mojave more; though again I feel like I need to repeat that I do see the logic why the staff did it their way.

I would also dare say that the breedables aren't always a reward per se. But that, in and of itself, is a very sensitive topic. Personally, many litters left me disappointed, to the point where breeding, to me, is pointless now. Some litters were so bland, I lost motivation for a story. But again, that's just me.

To me, saying that you 'earned' rewards through breeding alone... even defeats the point of licenses? Why do we have incentives, in that case, if the litters and KS (which we don't earn anymore) are incentive and reward enough, according to this topic?

It's true that some of us with Outposts did try to make it work. I know that I, myself, tried to make it work more than once. But quite honestly, Outposts never saw any interest, and I think that's Mojave's point. Not to mention, like I said, it's been literal years since anyone received random pets to put in their Outposts. I can't even remember the last time I even got a random pet.

Regardless, let's say Mojave did open an Outpost. Then what? She would've gotten a random custom and a random non-breedable token... for putting up a topic in the section? A topic that saw no interest? Where no pets were exchanged or given or adopted? Isn't it basically the same as not doing anything?

Not only that; Baal had specifically said that we were not obligated to offer the pets. If we wanted to keep the pets, we could. Nothing stopped us from keeping them as our own. That defeats the point of, 'it was for a charitable act'. It wasn't. You were entitled to the pet. IF you didn't want it; then yes, it went to your Outpost. Otherwise? Free custom pet.

Regardless, I personally know how the staff works, and no amount of anything will change the decisions. Suggestions will also somehow not be good enough or too much for new rewards. -shrug- I felt like Mojave and I were calm about the situation and were just expressing concerns, but I guess people wanted to get defensive and turn it into an argument? With paragraphs upon paragraphs of justifications that, to me, feel like they're just grappling at straws. Again, that's just me.




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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby Sarah » 05/20/2016 4:02 PM

I understand why the outpost was taken down, and kind of glad that the staff decided to take out a long inactive part of the forums. I also look forward to whatever new incentives or exclusives that are planned for rank A license holders.

I would like to respectfully disagree with the point that people may or may not be getting defensive/argumentative. I did not read any moderator post as anything more than helpful responses to user concerns.









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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby Thunder » 05/20/2016 6:38 PM

If I've somehow come off as defensive or argumentative, I apologize. That's not my intention. I'm only trying to explain more clearly the reasoning behind this decision, and the fact that this is a post written online probably doesn't really convey my tone well. I also don't think anyone else here is being defensive either.

Omnisearch wrote:To me, saying that you 'earned' rewards through breeding alone... even defeats the point of licenses? Why do we have incentives, in that case, if the litters and KS (which we don't earn anymore) are incentive and reward enough, according to this topic?


I'm not really sure where you think the topic says this, but perhaps we weren't being clear. Personally I think people do already earn rewards just by breeding; however I don't think that necessarily defeats the purpose of licenses. People continue to breed a species even after obtaining their A licenses for that species. Why? Because the breeding itself produces goods that the user receives -- breedables that they can either keep or trade. For this reason, I'm inclined to believe that people would still do breedings even if a license system never existed on Evelon (and people breed Diosol even though there isn't a license for those, right?). That said, licenses do exist, people do get rewards for reaching higher license levels, and as mentioned in the first post, we are planning to release even more bonuses for those who do have A licenses. We're trying to make having a license more relevant and special, not "defeat the point" of them. IMO it's a bit like a reward for being an active user.

Omnisearch wrote:Regardless, let's say Mojave did open an Outpost. Then what? She would've gotten a random custom and a random non-breedable token... for putting up a topic in the section? A topic that saw no interest? Where no pets were exchanged or given or adopted? Isn't it basically the same as not doing anything?

Not only that; Baal had specifically said that we were not obligated to offer the pets. If we wanted to keep the pets, we could. Nothing stopped us from keeping them as our own. That defeats the point of, 'it was for a charitable act'. It wasn't. You were entitled to the pet. IF you didn't want it; then yes, it went to your Outpost. Otherwise? Free custom pet.


You could keep the random pet if you wanted, sure. I don't blame anyone for liking random customs. But even if Outpost owners could get randoms and keep them, they still put up other valuable pets in their Outposts and offered them to users at extremely cheap exchange rates, far less than what they'd receive if they put the pet up for normal trade. Some people even made it so there was no fee at all for the pet; all a user had to do was apply for the pet with a planned story/personality, to ensure that the pet would be going to someone who really does want it. If I recall correctly, there wasn't even anything in the Outpost rules that stated people had to run their Outposts this way; it seemed like people just followed Morey's model because they thought it was a nice idea, and so the userbase itself made Outposts a way to help newbies get cool pets easily. So, I do not think anyone seriously opened an Outpost just because they wanted free random customs. I believe the people who chose to open Outposts had honest, non-greedy intentions for doing so.

For this reason, I must disagree with the idea that opening an Outpost was the same as "doing nothing". Even if there was no interest or exchange, that's not a failing on the Outpost owner's fault (or anyone's fault really); it's simply the case that Evelon's current economic system gives users very little reason for people to visit Outposts. Still, we want to reward the Outpost owners for their good intentions.
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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby Mojave » 05/20/2016 6:44 PM

I'm personally not trying to argue, regardless if anyone did post in anger/irritation. And I'm not saying that anyone did. But I personally didn't open one because 1) no randoms were going out to those who had posts regardless of how long they had one. 2) we hardly ever get new members that do more than post in the H&G thread and then disappear.

But I agree with Shrewd on this. Not opening an outpost is just as effective as opening one since no randoms were being sent out. I earned my A Licenses, and thus I earned a pet based on how Baal set the system up.

I am not as fine as I seem
Pardon, me for yelling and telling you green gardens
Are not what's growing in my psyche, it's a different me
A difficult beast feasting on burnt down trees
Freeze frame, please let me paint a mental picture portrait
Something you won't forget, it's all about my forehead
And how it is a door that holds back contents
That makes Pandora's box contents look non-violent
Behind my eyelids are islands of violence
My mind ship-wrecked this is the only land my mind could find
I did not know it was such a violent island
Full of tidal waves, suicidal crazed lions
They're trying to eat me, blood running down their chin
And I know that I can fight, or I can let the lion win
I begin to assemble what weapons I can find
'Cause sometimes to stay alive you gotta kill your mind
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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby ToxicShadow » 05/20/2016 7:07 PM

We apologize if any of you do not agree with the decision that we made, however, no, we do not intend to change it. With the retirement of Outposts, we gave a final reward to users that put in the effort to create an Outpost. Unfortunately, if one chose not to create on Outpost, then that was their choice, opting out of potential rewards for having one. The rewards were specifically aimed at users that had created Outposts, not all A Licence holders, in this situation. None of the decisions we made regarding the Outposts, and their retirement, was taken lightly.
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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby zapdragon555 » 05/20/2016 9:24 PM

Peers in. Don't kill me guys I love all of ya. 8'C <3 I haven't read ALL of the previous posts so if I'm redundant then please forgive me aye.

The mediator in me wants to say that both sides have equally viable arguments but. I'm gonna be honest here, the license rewards that you get by completing the A rank of any species is. Pretty dang good already, to me? Along with the achievement of knowing you did it? And now there's a discussion thread for additional rewards after completing the A license milestone, so that's cool too.

The free randoms, to me, are kind of a "Hey sorry we're taking down a thing that you worked hard to write up and make happen! Here's a cool thing for you as an apology." So if it's a kind of compensation gift for the people whose outposts were deleted, after they put the effort into making them, why,,, would people who didn't put the effort in get a free random? Charitable act or not, I don't think that particular point matters. It was compensation, if I'm seeing this correctly, not as much a reward (though saying "reward" definitely sounds nicer and less negative lolol).

This is the best analogy I could come up with in this case, be it reward or compensation:

Two people spent an equal amount of time and effort honing their painting skills. They both graduated painting school or whatever and were given a healthy dose of cash, as well as an opportunity to make their own shiny ribbon, totally made to order (customs--lmao this analogy is getting needlessly complicated BUT). Both painters were given paint and a canvas (equal opportunity) after graduation. Painter A then created a portrait, while painter B decided they didn't want to spend the time on it, for whatever legitimate reason. For their efforts, painter A is then given a ribbon, because, nice! They put effort into a thing. The person who made the painting, after being given the tools to do so, didn't know that they'd be getting any sort of ribbon--there was no known incentive other than it being kind of fun. But painter B thinks that they should get a ribbon as well, since they too worked hard to hone their painting skills. And they did work hard. But the ribbon was for one specific thing.

But that's a little on the silly side. Especially when you can buy these ribbons fairly easily with that healthy dose of cash that graduating painting school got you.

If you wanna go the compensation route, then suppose one person made a portrait and the other didn't, and then both were burned in a fire because their country no longer allowed canvases to exist. The person who put time into painting something can be compensated--the person who was just given a canvas, not so much.
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Or if I'm a crown without a king,
If I'm a broken open seed,
If I come without a thing,
Then I come with all I need.
No boat out in the blue,
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Re: .:Bye Bye Outposts:.

Postby MillietheWarrior » 05/20/2016 11:13 PM

Just popping in to say I don't mind this decision at all. Seems ok to me! If I may ask, which graveyard were they put in? I wanted to grab my text and any pets left in my outpost to be sure they don't get forgotten by me. ^^

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