[Silver]

I like the idea of keys costing KS but being unlimited... or maybe even just less limited. Or make them more expensive, I don't know.

But people will need to play to get Ks to get the keys, that increases activity, and they get the keys and use them when they want, instead of buying them to hoard. If there's no thought that keys are an extremely limited resource, people will be more relaxed about it (after an initial rush, I would guess). I would also suggest having a limit per person per month, as that will help it from becoming overwhelming.

Though, that's all just speculation. It could go completely different in practice, nobody really knows.

If that isn't an option staff is comfortable with, then I definitely support giving keys only to people who don't have any right now. Tell people who currently have keys that they can get more after they use there. I think that's very fair.

Aside from that, I highly support the idea that breedings could have the time limit removed, but have a 'x time between posts' thing. I think a week is pretty fair for most schedules.

[Kyrit]

Abolishing 2-week breeding limit:
I'm personally not for this. From my experience, often time what even gets users to finish their breeding is the time limit. A breeding requires 25 posts to finish, 2 weeks gives 14 days to do a breeding. That's less than 2 posts per day (so one post per day per person). People were once required to finish these 25 posts in 5 days. If we're going to allow people a full week between posts? A breeding could take up to 25 weeks if people really pushed it out. Meanwhile if we only give 3 days, what if someone is gone for the weekend/has a minor emergency? By our normal system they could make that time up by posting more ahead of time/afterward, but if they only had 3 days and missed the third day because of that? Whoops. There goes the room. Basically, I personally don't see how 25 posts in a 2 week time span is so hard. And if someone is worried about the time limit, that's what PMs are for as so many people do these days. We have toyed around with room lengths in the past, and we eventually settled for 2 weeks because people seemed to just drag their feet/not finish if we didn't limit them.

Abolishing 1 room per user at a time;
I'm not too keen on abolishing it per say, but some users have suggested at the least modifying it so you could be in one of each room type. I'd be fine with something like that, or just bumping the number up by one or two. I'd rather not say one person can be in 10 breedings at a time if they'd like though. xD; I doubt anyone would do that, but hey. Never know. It could happen. I like thinking ahead by saying, "Is there a possibility this could make me cry later on?"

Unlimited breeding:
Unless you plan on helping with breedings more often again Shrewdie, just.... no. xD; Not even no, but heeellll no. Admittedly, the reason Toxic and Sara's breeding sat for so long was I had done a huge batch of babies right before they finished, and then it was a pairing I wasn't too interested in. Normally Kreepy would've taken that (most likely), but she's been without internet and thus unable to work on breedings.

While I don't agree with unlimited breeding, I do think that using the idea and modifying it would work, as some have mentioned. There would just need to be restrictions to a great degree, otherwise one person could singly do 50 breedings in a single month if they really wanted. Unlimited breeding with just two staff members (or the most part) working on babies is just.. a bad idea. xD; Ways I could see it working if we moved to a more open system than keys;

+ Keystone cost must remain (Possibly still be able to pay for 1 room per so often with GT? Since users are already have the option of paying GT, but the limit would prevent abuse of being able to spend cash)
+ Payment would be taken upon the room starting, with the users breeding specifying who is paying or if the cost is split.
+ Potions must still be on hand for use.
+ There would be no option to 'sell' rooms anymore, since payment is only taken upon a room being started (Which would actually prevent people from selling rooms for hellishly high prices, which I most definitely approve of.)
+ Users would be limited as to how many breedings they could do within a given period (1 month, 3 months, some sort of limit though I'm up for suggestions on specific)
+ OR, rather than a set limit per month/3 months/whatever, it could cost extra to do more breedings within a given amount of time. For example, the price of the room could go up by 15 KS after the first 2 breedings and then another 15 for every room after that until the "timer" (as in months) is reset. For example, if the 'time limit' was 3 months. A user does two breedings in a month. To do a third, the KS price would go up by 15 KS. To do a fourth, another 15 KS. Then they want to do a fifth, but the three months is up, therefore they're back to normal price. This is just an example though, and obviously those numbers can be changed to anything. It is more complicated than just putting a flat limit on how many someone can do in a set period of time, so I doubt it's the more sought after method.
+ Users that already have a key can obviously still use those instead of paying again. No point in making them pay for a room twice.
+ Keys could still be kept, but only so we can hold raffles still, and they'd only be handed out through these raffles (and contests). This would still allow newer users/user unable to obtain much KS to get their hands on rooms. It would also still make it so the contests like the one that awarded a room to some lifemates could happen.

Special Topic for Key Requests:
If we go with the more widely available option for breeding rooms, I don't see this as being needed. If we stick to about the same system but want to implement more ways to get keys to users unable to get them, I'd say sure. It'd be a great idea alongside more raffles and/or just generally restricting buying keys based on how many you have already.


Okay. I thiiiiiink I caught up on all the stuff now. If I missed anything, sorry.

[Mojave]

I say keep the keys, that way it's still possible to keep a key for a rainy day (but you still have to use that one before you can get another) or get them as gifts for other people, but the point of reselling them for exorbitant prices is gone. I also think that if we still have to buy keys, we shouldn't be limited on how many times we can breed. If that means the cost of keys increases by, say 25ks, that would be fine.

[zapdragon555]

+ Keystone cost must remain (Possibly still be able to pay for 1 room per so often with GT? Since users are already have the option of paying GT, but the limit would prevent abuse of being able to spend cash)
+ Payment would be taken upon the room starting, with the users breeding specifying who is paying or if the cost is split.
+ Potions must still be on hand for use.
+ There would be no option to 'sell' rooms anymore, since payment is only taken upon a room being started (Which would actually prevent people from selling rooms for hellishly high prices, which I most definitely approve of.)
+ Users would be limited as to how many breedings they could do within a given period (1 month, 3 months, some sort of limit though I'm up for suggestions on specific)
+ OR, rather than a set limit per month/3 months/whatever, it could cost extra to do more breedings within a given amount of time. For example, the price of the room could go up by 15 KS after the first 2 breedings and then another 15 for every room after that until the "timer" (as in months) is reset. For example, if the 'time limit' was 3 months. A user does two breedings in a month. To do a third, the KS price would go up by 15 KS. To do a fourth, another 15 KS. Then they want to do a fifth, but the three months is up, therefore they're back to normal price. This is just an example though, and obviously those numbers can be changed to anything. It is more complicated than just putting a flat limit on how many someone can do in a set period of time, so I doubt it's the more sought after method.
+ Users that already have a key can obviously still use those instead of paying again. No point in making them pay for a room twice.
+ Keys could still be kept, but only so we can hold raffles still, and they'd only be handed out through these raffles (and contests). This would still allow newer users/user unable to obtain much KS to get their hands on rooms. It would also still make it so the contests like the one that awarded a room to some lifemates could happen.

I agree with all things said here very much. I like the idea of keeping the keys for raffle purposes (so that people can get rooms for basically free as a prize) but then also have the "unlimited breeding" where you have to pay but price keeps going up each time. I'm not sure how much you're saying the first room would cost, but if it's something like 200 KS then that's 40 RP posts which honestly isn't a ridiculous amount at all, in my opinion, especially if you're doing a speed RP. Hence even new users could get their hands on one.

[Silverin]

I will say if I am needed I will help out with breedings. In my opinion making a baby takes less time than the rest of what I actually do on evelon... making a pet takes more time and thought especially if there are edits. So I would not mind taking up some work load. It would be kinda like a break for me at least.

((I still need to read through posts.... the computer wont connect to the internet right now xc so I will respond to that later))

[Nyxia]

I'll add my two cents in just for the hell of it basically, even though I had planned to stay out of this due to its earlier uproar. I am purposely staying away from that part of the discussion since it is sort of upsetting right now.


Unlimited breedings:

As much as I love the idea on this, I'm a little worried at how overwhelmed you on the staff might get by it. I do have a suggestion though

+ Users would be limited as to how many breedings they could do within a given period (1 month, 3 months, some sort of limit though I'm up for suggestions on specific)

+ OR, rather than a set limit per month/3 months/whatever, it could cost extra to do more breedings within a given amount of time. For example, the price of the room could go up by 15 KS after the first 2 breedings and then another 15 for every room after that until the "timer" (as in months) is reset. For example, if the 'time limit' was 3 months. A user does two breedings in a month. To do a third, the KS price would go up by 15 KS. To do a fourth, another 15 KS. Then they want to do a fifth, but the three months is up, therefore they're back to normal price. This is just an example though, and obviously those numbers can be changed to anything. It is more complicated than just putting a flat limit on how many someone can do in a set period of time, so I doubt it's the more sought after method.

I think it would be wise to have a 3 - 6 month period on this, just to keep things from getting wildly chaotic.Each user would have eight or nine rooms they could purchase for the 3 month limit, which could be tracked with the same system we have for who owns keys.

Though I would also suggest rather than it begin unlimited the mods set a specific amount of rooms available per month for each group that can be used. Example: 25 lucain rooms are open to be used, users A, B, & C each take a room. Once paid for this would leave 22 rooms open still. Rooms left over at the end of the month then disappear at the role over to the next month and it counter on rooms open resets.

I think this would also help a lot of our newer users, since older members would be a whole lot more willing to spend the Ks for a room and take a small tick off their own counter, than use up a key which leaves them waiting for months before another release. Another thing about it would be that for new users, they could partly pay for a room (depending on the total cost). This would make it more new user friendly, without completely draining them of their funds.

[ToxicShadow]

Abolishing 2-week breeding limit:
I'm personally not for this. From my experience, often time what even gets users to finish their breeding is the time limit. A breeding requires 25 posts to finish, 2 weeks gives 14 days to do a breeding. That's less than 2 posts per day (so one post per day per person). People were once required to finish these 25 posts in 5 days. If we're going to allow people a full week between posts? A breeding could take up to 25 weeks if people really pushed it out. Meanwhile if we only give 3 days, what if someone is gone for the weekend/has a minor emergency? By our normal system they could make that time up by posting more ahead of time/afterward, but if they only had 3 days and missed the third day because of that? Whoops. There goes the room. Basically, I personally don't see how 25 posts in a 2 week time span is so hard. And if someone is worried about the time limit, that's what PMs are for as so many people do these days. We have toyed around with room lengths in the past, and we eventually settled for 2 weeks because people seemed to just drag their feet/not finish if we didn't limit them.

I'm going to state that, for my recommendation of having a breeding fail if it is inactive for a certain amount of time, my suggested time would be (ideally) two weeks. If two weeks seems like too much time, then one week could also be suitable. Any less than that would essentially defeat the purpose of it.

My points in favor of the change:

+ We now pay KS that we earn for the breeding key, so it doesn't seem all that fair that we can lose them easily. Especially in a recent case of mine, where it was the user that did not purchase that key that was unable to post/did not post, so it was out of my control. If I use my own key for a breeding, but it ends up failing because something occurs with the other user, then that would be incredibly frustrating (and off putting to breeding), because I am losing out on an item I paid for and made efforts to obtain. Having a limited time frame, thus, a chance of failing made a lot of sense when breedings slots were given out for free, but losing something we actually paid for doesn't make much sense to me.

+ If a person or two people choose to let a breeding sit there for weeks at a time, does it really matter? I don't see an actual negative to letting breedings sit, if the users choose to, since they may otherwise just let their keys sit there, completely unused. Users already do the breedings in PMs for the purpose of not being able to finish on time, yes, but if they were able to actually post the breeding with less time constraints, then the users actually appear to be actively roleplaying on Evelon (which is something we need to work on: showing activity) instead of throwing the breeding posts down all in one day once it is done and then having it sit, inactive, and eventually vanish. If we use PMs as a loophole to the rule already, why have the rule exist? It seems like a waste of time to have the rule in place when we can get around it, anyway, AND that way of doing it is considered acceptable by the staff already. The wanting to finish for the sake of babies should be enough motivation to post, in my opinion. Especially because, if they want to be in another breeding (with how things currently are or if we are permitted to be in a few more breedings at once), then they have to finish one they are already in before they can start another one anyway. Additionally, no, two posts per day isn't a lot, but with how activity has been on Evelon in general, two posts a day in one roleplay doesn't actually occur that often anymore. The pace in which most of our user base roleplays has slowed down immensely.

+ If a breeding is nearly guaranteed to be completed, then breeding artists potentially have a longer time span to work on offspring. As I understand it, babies are not usually made until the a breeding is finished, so that staff know that their art will actually be used. If a method is used where the breeding is very likely to finish, then artists could potentially work on the babies as soon as a breeding started, if they actually wanted, which offers more time to work on them. They can work on them for however long the breeding roleplay spans for, and still have time to work on them afterward. Which means a single baby from a litter could be made one day, then a, a few days down the road, another, when staff has time or inspiration for them rather than having to sit down and try to throw enough offspring together in one sitting.



Outside of my positive points, I honestly have to wonder, since you said that people dragged their feet in breedings without time limits, was this actually ever tested or is that an assumption? I don't recall it being tested at any point, at least not in the public eye. I still don't think it actually matters what pace a user chooses to roleplay at, but am curious about this claim.

Additionally, having a rule that against inactivity, "If the breeding is not posted in within X amount of time, it fails," still combats inactivity and spurs users to post, even if at a slower pace. Maybe it is not SUPER active, but it IS still active. A number of roleplayers have regular roleplays that only get posted in once every few weeks, but that's their choice. There are also a number of roleplayers that choose to post in roleplays at least once or more often in a day. But it's their choice, so why not have something more similar to this freedom in breeding roleplays? Why should breeding roleplays be any different, when being able to post at whatever rate they want could potentially get people to actually roleplay and use their keys?

EDIT to respond to this portion:

+ Keystone cost must remain (Possibly still be able to pay for 1 room per so often with GT? Since users are already have the option of paying GT, but the limit would prevent abuse of being able to spend cash)
+ Payment would be taken upon the room starting, with the users breeding specifying who is paying or if the cost is split.
+ Potions must still be on hand for use.
+ There would be no option to 'sell' rooms anymore, since payment is only taken upon a room being started (Which would actually prevent people from selling rooms for hellishly high prices, which I most definitely approve of.)
+ Users would be limited as to how many breedings they could do within a given period (1 month, 3 months, some sort of limit though I'm up for suggestions on specific)
+ OR, rather than a set limit per month/3 months/whatever, it could cost extra to do more breedings within a given amount of time. For example, the price of the room could go up by 15 KS after the first 2 breedings and then another 15 for every room after that until the "timer" (as in months) is reset. For example, if the 'time limit' was 3 months. A user does two breedings in a month. To do a third, the KS price would go up by 15 KS. To do a fourth, another 15 KS. Then they want to do a fifth, but the three months is up, therefore they're back to normal price. This is just an example though, and obviously those numbers can be changed to anything. It is more complicated than just putting a flat limit on how many someone can do in a set period of time, so I doubt it's the more sought after method.
+ Users that already have a key can obviously still use those instead of paying again. No point in making them pay for a room twice.
+ Keys could still be kept, but only so we can hold raffles still, and they'd only be handed out through these raffles (and contests). This would still allow newer users/user unable to obtain much KS to get their hands on rooms. It would also still make it so the contests like the one that awarded a room to some lifemates could happen.

I pretty much agree with all of these points, although I am leaning in favor of the option that choosing to breed more often within a set amount of time costs users more each time. I'm totally in favor of users wanting to roleplay to earn more KS to use for more breedings. Paying more and more for additional breeding rights within a set amount of time seems like a legitimate way to both regulate the amount of breedings done, as well as spurring users into actually roleplaying. Since, you know, roleplaying is the thing Evelon is intended for, so more roleplaying always equals a good thing.

[Atoli01]

Though I would also suggest rather than it begin unlimited the mods set a specific amount of rooms available per month for each group that can be used. Example: 25 lucain rooms are open to be used, users A, B, & C each take a room. Once paid for this would leave 22 rooms open still. Rooms left over at the end of the month then disappear at the role over to the next month and it counter on rooms open resets.

If we do it this way, then wouldn't it be simpler to stick to the key method and do a monthly release, rather than overhaul the system? I'm sure people would jump on the rooms just the same as they do now when they come out.

Personally, I still prefer the idea of the keys. I say have a monthly raffle/key release (maybe alternate between the two methods each month) on a set day (if possible), and let users go from there. Implement that thread for special key requests (maybe limited to one key per user per month, plus payment?) and either allow users to be in a breeding room for each type of breedable at a time or limit it to two or three rooms at a time overall.

It's difficult to find a way to balance pleasing people with the number of breedings and not giving mods too much work. I'll say again that we can't... Go wild with it. I still suggest having tight restrictions to keep it as something of value.

Also, I saw this while I was posting, but I'll throw it in here-- Reading Toxic's points may have swayed my opinion just a tad on the matter of the time limit. It's hard to say which side is a better option, honestly. Maybe it's just because I'm so accustomed to the way breedings have always been.

EDIT to put in my two cents on the payment (in the case of the "unlimited" breeding): I'd say 200-300 KS per key (maybe even 350?) without a GT option (to encourage users to roeplay more). It is true that Toxic's time suggestions would maybe make it possible for artists to make the pets ahead of time and allow for more breedings possibly, although I don't believe we should go over two keys per person per month, and that's pushing it, IF the new time restrictions are in order. (Plus you possible have one or two that you can request from that new special key request thread if it becomes an option.) I don't remember who suggested it right at the moment, but I agree with the possibility of not being able to trade the keys. (However, maybe cap the number of keys that are available per month? 50? 75?)

[Thunder]

Oh mannn so many posts x.x I can't spend too much time on this right now but I'll give some quick two-cents.

Some Period of Unlimited Breeding: While it could be interesting, I am also afraid for the mod team and would definitely want to see SOME kind of restrictions placed on this so there isn't a massive work dump placed on our already super busy mods.

Agree with Shrewd, and if we did do unlimited breedings, then why not put a cap on how many rooms can be going on at a given time? Say... 10 or so, or even less so we don't have like 30 or more going on. A cap would be nice, but I dunno about people fighting over who gets to post lol

^ Yeah, if we did try to say "only x rooms can be going on at once", then it would just become a competition to see who can post their room first. We'd have to use some different type of regulation to control the room number.

I know there was an argument that "if everyone is able to breed whenever, nobody will breed". We already have that problem with the keys, so I fail to see how that is a valid argument.

If however, we don't do 'breed without a key for a month or so" I would like to see unlimited keys. That way we still have to buy the key, but we're not waiting on releases. That would keep the number dependent on people earning ks- which requires roleplay at it's core.

I forgot to mention this earlier, but if there is enough interest in the breeding free for all, I would suggest trying it out during the Summer vacation months so nobody's schoolwork would be adversely affected.

^ All good points. I'm also a fan of the "unlimited keys in stock but you still have to work to buy them" idea.

Special Topic for Key Requests: Much yes, very like. As long as the user requesting a key actually goes through with using the key within a timely manner, I think this is a great way for people to get those plot based breedings they need to do finished, and it would definitely encourage activity. I think we should also make it clear that any keys given using this method cannot be resold; they are gifted to the user to use for that specific breeding and they have an obligation to use it for that breeding.

Abolishing 1 room per user at a time;
I'm not too keen on abolishing it per say, but some users have suggested at the least modifying it so you could be in one of each room type. I'd be fine with something like that, or just bumping the number up by one or two.

No qualms about this idea on my end.

[Jaykobell]

Wow, okay... this whole topic exploded and honestly I don't think I can truly address everything. So I'll do what I can.

First, I'd like to address this comment in particular:

Unless you plan on helping with breedings more often again Shrewdie, just.... no.

Which I find ironic, because I was, in fact, the main breeding artist when breeding first started up again. I was also the one who was told that I was making the users wait too long for their litters because I only wanted to work on rooms on the weekends (Friday night, Saturday, Sunday). But that apparently, me having a fulltime job that is very stressful and mentally taxing, along with me still being willing to work on litters 3 days out of 7 days of a full week, was not commendable enough to justify not doing litters on weekdays.

That was one thing. The second thing, while it is mostly just me, actually ties back to what Toxic mentioned: the first being quality over quantity, and the second being the fact the Evelon staff doesn't get to enjoy Evelon  as members.

I'm bringing those up because I don't think the community truly understands it what it means to do babies. Do you guys know why I only work on them during the weekend? Because a good litter can take me a good 1 to 2 hours of work.

My process is that I sit down, open up the two parents, take down the items, and then I color pick the colors from the parents; base, making, wingblades, eyes; put them together in a 'color chart' where I can easily color-pick from, and then I start the babies. I will mess with a single baby from 15 to 45 minutes depending on how much trouble it gives me, how much the colors work together, or how much I want to even out the markings... etc. Then there's gradients, which are a damn pain in the ass.

With Toxic's mention/concern that quality would drop, I cannot bring myself to drop this process. I cannot bring myself to just pick one color and go with it for 3 babies. Not unless the pairing is very difficult color-wise.

Which is why, to me, it hurts to see the following when people post their babies:

1. Breeders are unhappy with their babies and basically sell them right away; and/or

2. No one even bothers to comment on the babies.

And to me, it feels like the big, big majority of my litters generate this level of carelessness, or dislike. And herein lies one of Evelon's most disgusting problem: everything is done manually. Yes, it is not as simple as pushing a button like on Wajas, or like when we're using the Kuhna roller. We have to sit down, think, and tinker with the same images for hours before we make good babies.

And I just feel like my litters don't get attention when compared to the attention Krypto's and Kyrit's and even Kodai's litters get.

I don't know. I realize the problem is on me, and yes, I do realize not everyone will like all of my litters: that's a given, and that's one of the risks you're willing to take when you become an artist. But I feel like 85% of my litters get no attention and/or the babies get sold like... the next few days following their growth. I get that the people who will get the pets do like them, the problem is that... I made those babies for the breeders. I don't care what others think, in that moment. If the breeders, the people who wanted those babies, do not like them, then I have failed as an artist. And that seems to be what I do best when it comes to litters.

Anyway, that said and with that out of my stupid system... and steeling myself for all the flake I'm gonna get for this... My opinion on the other points. And I'll try to keep it brief, because Jesus... there is so much stuff right now.

So, lol, first, scraping the whole 'free for all' idea...

Second... Lmao, you guys realize we are a very, VERY MINUSCULE community, right? You guys are talking like we'd have 5 pages of backlog within a month or something. Unless you guys have THAT many breedings that you will all be typing frantically despite school, homework, finals, work, life, and other things, what are you expecting out of yourselves?

Evelon has always been the type of community to go HOMFG YES YES YES YES GIVE IT TO ME NOW I WANT THIS I NEED THIS NOW! and pulling fits when things were not available (read: when everyone thought their Kuhnas would be forever stuck with those expressions and HOMG BUT WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!!!).

And then, who used the Kuhna Salon feature for that? Not very many. At all.

So honestly, I think you guys will freak out initially and you will try to post a lot of breedings as fast as you can. But honestly, the excitement will die down. It always does. Evelon has always been like that, too. It goes from THIS IS THE GREATEST THING EVEEEEEEEEEEER to Eh, it's nice. As soon as you guys will have cleared up your backlog of HOMFG I NEED TO DO THIS BREEDING IN MY LIFE breedings, you will go back to not breeding. Lol.

That, and I think Zap has a good point: would you guys really go out there and try to 3048u503847580347 breedings at once, knowing everyone will also do that? And seriously, the majority of the community has seen a lack of activity, as proven by people not doing anything. Breeding still requires effort. I really doubt I'll suddenly see people posting like machines because 'unlimited' breeding became a thing.

You guys are REALLY overestimating your abilities... That's all I'm gonna say.

Anyway, I do agree with the majority of Kyrit's points in order to limited a freer system without making it completely chaotic.

- Agree with KS cost remaining; also agree with the cost being taken right at the start from whoever is paying, whether in full or split;
- Fine with potions still being on hand, or at least having an order placed in the Potion Shop for one, with a link to that post so it can be properly recorded upon breeding;
- No selling rooms; absolutely agree. 110%, there is not enough text to say how much I would love this. This also gets rid of the sickening competition the Keys usually create;
- Agree with using keys to use as contest prizes, etc.;

I'm fine with either system in terms of limiting how many breedings one person could have at a given time, meaning, I'm fine with each member having X breedings available for Y amount of time (i.e. 2 per 1 month); I'm also fine with giving members unlimited breedings, but with an increasing amount of KS each time. I think both systems could be potentially much better than the competitive key system we currently have.

But I'm honestly freaking out at some of those values... 3-6 months? Lmao, I thought you guys wanted more keys... not less.

Anyway, I think 2 Keys of any type per user per one (1) month would be just fine, together with a rollover effect; meaning they do not stack (i.e. no situations like I SAVED ALL MY 23048230842350 UNUSED 2 BREEDINGS SINCE 1998... AW YIS SO MANY BREEDINGS TO DO). Again. You guys will not breed so excessively. I do not believe it, lmao. At the very least, you will not breed that much consistently. We should, of course, expect a massive boost in interest when the breeding system gets changed IF IT DOES CHANGE... but yeah. It will not stay that way.

Another system I could suggest is this. I'm part of a group on dA where breeding is a big part of it. The way they make it work is the following:

You can breed your Pokemon (in this case) up to 6 times a week. But there's a thing; you can only initiate 3 breedings; and you can only participate in 3 others. Breeding by yourself uses 2 slots, making it a total of 3 breedings when on your own.

I figured perhaps this would be the perfect system to help Evelon relax in terms of competitive and territorial breeding. Here is how I would modify it:

Each member can partake in four (4) breedings per one (1) month.
However, as per the system above, you can only initiate and participate in 2 breedings; otherwise, breeding by yourself is limited to 2 breedings per month.

What do initiate and participate mean?

Let's say I really, really want to breed with Thunder. She's my waifu and all.
I'm the one who's going to Thunder and saying I want to breed. When we start the breeding, instead of stating whose key we're using, I'll specify that I'm the one who wanted to breed, and who initiated the breeding room.
Meanwhile, on Thunder's side of things, that takes up a slot out of her two available slots to just participate in a breeding. She didn't go to me to start a breeding; I did. She's only tagging along for the ride because I asked.

It might sound complicated in text, but really, it's very simple in practice.

This keeps the same people from breeding all the time, and at the same time, it encourages breeding between members; because by breeding with others, you can participate in up to 4 breedings a month! That's one breeding a week! If you're a mad posting machine. Actually, if you're both posting machines.
Versus if you breed on your own, that's 2 breedings a month.

This would help cooperation and loosening up. Toxic mentioned that she loves helping those achieve their licenses; this system strengthens that perfectly, because it doesn't restrict the breeding species nor does it restrict who you can breed with.

Just to show how it could help, using Toxic as an example. Because she does this stuff. It's too late now, Toxic, you're mine.

Toxic wants to help Zap and Bacon earn their next breeding license. Zap is after Cain, Bacon is after Kuhna. Nothing stops Toxic from breeding with the two of them within the same month and initiating the breeding in order to help them out. But then, Atoli comes and she would really like to breed with Toxic! Ah, but Toxic has already used her two slots to initiate breedings... but that's not a problem. Atoli can initiate the breeding, and Toxic can participate; because she hasn't participated in any breeding yet! She's only initiated them.

Does this system make sense? I feel like this would restrict the potential backlog without restricting people too tightly. Yes, room cost would still remain, but you could split that however you want (or even have the initiator pay the full price to make it simple and clear who used that slot type).

We would keep track of them the same way we keep track of keys, but in reverse. Two lists:

Ingoing/Initiatives/Name
Baconwizard 1
Shrewdberry 1
ToxicShadow 2

Outgoing/Participations/Name
Baconwizard 2
Shrewdberry 2
ToxicShadow 1

As simple as that. See how the values are different? Clearly Bacon and I didn't ask anyone to breed, but we did participate in a breeding with others; and therefore, we have no choice but to initiate the last breeding slot we have.

Toxic, in the meantime, can no longer initiate breedings, but if anyone would offer to breed with her, she could still participate.

And those who still have keys simply wouldn't add a 'strike' to their count for that month.

And comes the first of every month, we just wipe out the lists. If your name does NOT appear, you still have both slots available.

What do you guys think? And keep in mind, I really, genuinely think this amount of breedings would be fine. Guys, please be realistic: we CANNOT prevent backlog if we change the system. We will NOT and we CANNOT. How many breedings do you guys have backlogged that you REALLY want to do? How many? But you've been holding off because us, the staff, have not been releasing keys. The fault is mostly on us, because we have established in the minds of the community that keys are VERY RARE, and you want to use it for this breeding that you ABSOLUTELY NEED in your life.

There will be backlog. There cannot not be backlogged overhauling a system like this to what we would like to do. However, the backlog will die down.

Plus, nothing stops us from closing down breeding for a time just to collect ourselves with litters, and then modify the numbers available to each member. This would be experimental no matter what we do.

If we went with this kind of free-ish system, then I agree that a topic for lifemates/plot breedings would be obsolete, for sure.

Honestly this is what I have so far... this is getting on way too long right now. Idk, does this sound better and a bit more structured? I think it will help because the breeding aspect will also be handled by the userbase, and not the mods. We won't need to release keys, we won't need to record trades, we won't need to do any of that. We will only need to record item uses, note who used which slot type, and then do litters. If we don't rely on key releases, EVERYONE will be able to finally breed, regardless of timezones, sniping, etc. Silver and crow have been on this site for a million years and have barely bred. And now they finally could. New users could get into breeding almost right away, experiencing one of the most beloved aspects of the site. You guys won't be so pressured to breed in a RUSH RUSH RUSH RUSH because you will know that keys are no longer a rare, restricted item.

I think keeping the basic Key fees is fine. Because we're limiting how many breedings you can do, anyway. But if you guys would REALLY rather spend more money, lol... Idk, personally I wouldn't want to spend 350KS for one room... kinda sucks a lot. I'd say 200KS, max... I mean, if you breed with someone else, unless you split the cost, you earn 60-65KS per breeding... that is a massive loss if you breed with someone.

I also do see Kyrit's point about members actually accomplishing things because of a time limit. I do agree that breeding will probably sit there for a time... but like Toxic, I honestly do not mind. She's right in saying that we paid for the service, and with the busy lives we have, it's not fair for us to lose our service because the other person didn't post on time. I think one (1) week BETWEEN POSTS is a very fair time frame for everyone. 2 weeks may be a bit excessive considering the minimum post standards, but 3-4 days sounds too little considering the lives we live with college, work, family, and life in general. 1 week, to me, is comfortable.

Okay, I am really stopping now... Jesus. My evening is gone again. :| Every single one of you, get out of here.

[Atoli01]

Woo, okay, there's not much else I can say on the matter besides voicing my support for the new system. It would be difficult to get used to not having keys, but after the points Shrewdie made... I don't think there's much to be debated/corrected (in my eyes at least).

This system has my vote.

[zapdragon555]

I'm throwing in a +1 support for the initiate / participate system. I'm lovin that a lot and I really think it could work beautifully.

[Mojave]

Holy omg wow. Every point i agree with. 9000% support, Shrewd. 8'D

Edit:
OMG no. I don't support the self bashing.

[Kodai]

hello yes this is doge

So I might be a little biased since I’m in the same dA group Shrewdie’s talking about, but I really do like the idea of using the initiate/participate format for our breeding system. Here’s why:

It lets users start breedings whenever they like. Users don’t have to wait to get lucky in a raffle/restock or pay other users large sums of KS in order to breed. No more complaints about time zones/random luck, and no more reason to hoard keys. Everyone can relax and have a good time instead of stressing about posting on time to get a key or wondering if they’ll ever get one.

It puts a limit on how often users can breed. Somewhat related to the above, in that users aren’t literally allowed to start breedings whenever they like — but this is good as it doesn’t flood the staff with babies to create.

It encourages users to RP with others. Everyone seems to be aware that self-RPs are a bit of a problem, as they don’t create a sense of community. Not that self-RPs are bad, of course, but getting users to RP with others is definitely a good thing. Perhaps we could even have some sort of bonus for users that decide to do breedings with people they haven’t RPed with before (extra KS, additional offspring, higher chance of mutations, etc.)?

It’s easy to keep track of. Not that the keys are particularly difficult to track, but the less information that needs to be logged, the better, right?

Also, I should say that I agree with getting rid of the “only one breeding at a time” and changing it to either “only one type of breeding at a time” or possibly something like “only 2 breedings at a time” (this would allow users to, for example, do a Paragon self-breeding and a Paragon breeding with someone else) OR both rules (so, for example, a user could either be in a Kuhna and Paragon room at the same time or two Paragon rooms at the same time).

I also think that one week between breeding posts is fair. It’s enough time to allow for RL emergencies/events, but not so long as to make breedings drag on for ages.

(Shrewdie just notified me that the KS cost will be kept, so yeah. No problems whatsoever with this. 200KS that can be split however sounds fair to me... and I guess if we really wanted the initiator to pay for the room, we could just tell people that they can donate the KS to the initiator beforehand.)

[Mojave]

on the subject of ks sinks, maybe hold raffles for rare items like mysterious eggs, fertility potions (or whichever lets custom kuhnas breed), more auctions for pets both breedable and not, maybe even ks custom sales for non breedables. Or another random custom sale for ks.