Would you like to see this side project happen?

[Kyrit]

So you want to order a custom, but while designing it you have no idea what sort of things you can choose colors for. Perhaps you've checked out my old project that kinda gave you an idea, but it's been outdated for ages and was maybe even confusing at times.

Well, I've been considering a potential new side project (as in I'd just work on it when I'm bored) that would be along the lines of updating and revamping that old list. Instead of listing in just text what layers are available to be colored, there would be an actual image to reference. There would be one image with the generic layout of the pet and an additional image (or images) showing optional markings that are available. These would of course be linked to rather than posted as an image chart, since it would be very image heavy. Here are two examples.



The original poll showed overwhelming support of this project, so I have at least started on a few of them, as you can find mostly in the reptiles section. So far I haven't started on any of the optional markings/edits. Currently I am open to requests. In other words, if I don't have any current requests I'll be working on them at random, but if users request specific species I'll target those ones first. Post away with your requests

[GrayGriffin]

I think this would be really cool! I'm a visual learner, so this would be easier for me to understand.

[Thunder]

Visuals would definitely help for a few of the more complicated pets. I'm all for it.

[Kyrit]

Since so far people do seem to like the idea (other than the 1 no, which if that person wants to express why they don't want such a feature that could be helpful too, but all is good), are there any pets in particular people would like focused one first? Thunder mentioned 'complicated pets' in passing, which makes me curious as to if there are any pets people would like rushed. Or maybe I'll even get around to doing them on a 'claim' basis. As in a person requests to see the template of a pet and I'll go ahead and make that one when I want?

I know some pets are far more popular than others after all. Originally I was going to just start at the top (so Albie would be first) and work my way down, but it did dawn on me that there are probably some pets few people are interested in. For example, there's no custom Tuskow or Trumpetter floating around out there. Meanwhile I know there are at least a good handful of Shinzo or Mekkayena.

[TrizzyTreke]

I would like to express my regret for voting against the project. I thought it sounded like a lot of work, but I voted without looking at the old project. Then I took a peek at it and realized visuals would be incredibly helpful! Plus, I like the idea of an update in Evelon. I would withdraw my "no" if I could.

[ToxicShadow]

I voted in favor of this project, as I think it would certainly be helpful to users when wanting to design customs. Since no one has posted any suggestions for pets they would like to see, I figured I would throw a few out there. o3o

These are pets I am considering making customs of, so would love to see:

Sabbit
Werecain
Yonyuu
Tavil
Corbine
Albie
Aries

While these are pets that I think are neat, but complex, so would definitely benefit from the project:

Sygriff
Shartile
Draculi
Meji
Tengumi
'wockee

Other pets that seem popular, such as the Shinzo, Mekkayena, Werebetta, and Akail would also likely be helpful, just as you suggested.

[Thunder]

A few species that I think this would help with the most, just from glancing through the adoption pages. This has nothing to do with my species preferences, I'm just naming a few with designs that might be difficult for people to describe/visualize piece by piece.

- Bruma
- Sygriff
- Shartile
- Kuchi Nagi
- Choopa
- Lohlani
- Likuta
- Beetanke
- Mekkayena
- Ptarmie (I have one of these on my wishlist and dear god)
- Gallizar
- Scorpinch
- 'Wockees
- Scordrak
- Imeut
- Meji
- Malphas

[Shieba]

I voted "no" for several reasons, all of them being the other "side-projects" Evelon has going on which I have been waiting for for years and which are/got never finished. Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea of this project here and think it would be really, really cool. There is nothing wrong with it whatsoever. However, Origin pets (I think that was their name) were promised us an eternity ago - I think that was by you, Kyrit? I don't even remember. I am waiting since more than two years on my shrine Trait and despite an announced revamp, NOTHING has happened there, either, because you mod(min) guys still haven't gotten the list of RP possibilities up (or it's hidden somewhere), meaning there is zero war motivation for me anymore. So quite frankly? I am absolutely against another "side project" until the others are finished. I am aware that Kodai is, for example, the one in charge of the shrine, but from what I've heard from her, ever mod is supposed to make the RP possibility list for their demigod and stuff. I would very much rather see that done instead of something new because again, the waiting time is ridiculous.

But there is nothing wrong with this project in itself at all. None. Please don't misunderstand my no-vote.

[Kyrit]

Origin pets actually aren't a side project. They were included in a much larger project, which is still in development. We were told to put that project to the side though until the Kuhna breeding system was revamped so we could focus completely on Kuhnas. Kuhnas put a halt on a lot of things, meaning we're back on track with working on other projects (the one the Origin pets are part of as well) now. Though I will admit the project related to the Origin pets isn't top priority though, as there's a larger scale project that's been going on behind the scenes for a good while that has taken a lot of staff resource time.

As for shrine trait RPs, the list is in progress. Kodai even mentioned last night while we were having a short meeting that it still needed to be done. There's only one god that the parameters haven't at least been started on, and most are at least half done. Again though, it hasn't been high priority since we've had a larger project to work on. I took a bit off of Kodai's plate by helping out with part that she was working on, so perhaps she'll have more time to finish that up soon. Kodai does also have a lot of stats she needs to release though, which we need done more than we do shrine traits.

Keep in mind, this side project is literally that. It's not an official Evelon project. It's just something I'd be working on my own time, during those times that I don't feel like doing anything else. It's not going to be taking away time from actual projects that the staff have going on. There are often long periods of time where we're waiting on another mod or even Baal herself for feedback or art or anything, in which I've got time to play with files if I'm bored.

[Shieba]

First, thank you very much for your quick and lengthy response. I never meant to take the discussion that far away from the topic of the thread, so I am grateful that you answered.

If this project is truly not going to take away time from all the other projects, then by all means, I'd love to see it come true since a lot of people would probably find it more than helpful (I personally like so few species that I know what I can customize with these by now, haha).

I also want to apologize if I came across as bitter or mean; I am not on a semi-hiatus for nothing as Evelon has been nothing but frustrating and aggravating for me lately because of waiting times and ten million things announced and never coming true - I actually consider leaving for good and my mood probably reflects that strongly, which is why I should better shut up.

Again, if you are willing to start such a time-consuming project in your free time, that's awesome and for the records, the pets I'm most interested in are Felloxes, Cheekas, Shinzos, Floranas, Sabbits, Brumas and Sparquills. But as I said, my opinion shouldn't matter much since I'll probably leave soon anyway.

[Kyrit]

It's quite alright. I understand your frustration, which is why I went ahead and explained the current ongoings. It's the downside to the fact that we are of course run by such a small (unpaid) staff. There's always a lot we want to do, but it take a long time unless that current project is the main focus of the entire team. But yes. In short I assure you that this project isn't slowing down any of the others. =) I've actually been going around for the past few weeks and cleaning up loose ends (descriptions for Christmas/Easter pets for example have been something I've been working on the last few days) and helping Kodai as mentioned.

[Shieba]

I understand that fully, Kyrit, and I appreciate - and always appreciated - the dedication you guys have shown towards Evelon in the last years. However, I think that maybe, it would be wise to do more things like the Kuhna project - as in, unannounced. Things like the Origin pets, the Shrine revamp... they were announced long ago and if then nothing gets done, it's frustrating. Heck, on a smaller scale, it's the same problem with raffles when they get held and the results get posted a week later. Morey said he would choose an end date for the current Lucain "very soon" (after it had been up there since quite some time already) - at the end of May. Evelon's problem is that it offers a LOT of things, but these things don't get done in a timely manner. I think no one expected the Kuhna revamp to happen when it did and there was no announcement, so there was very little frustration (expect for those few people who missed the Kuhna breeding possibility, of course).

So in short, I think Evelon's information policy is the main problem - either no announcement should be made for upcoming things or a deadline/timeframe should be given and then whoever did it should stick to it. Same with the war; I think a lot of people were super-excited when the war started, but with the Trait problems we had (and, with the Shrine, have), fighting was always difficult and didn't get much interest. Restricted Traits are still approved very slowly, for example, when during the war, these things should have priority.

But again, this is going off-topic. I would like to see this project come to life, then, and only hope that it won't get abandoned halfway through since it seems rather time-consuming and you obviously have enough work on your plate as it is. =) Best of luck!

[Jaykobell]

All I want to say is that this is actually something I have been saying for a time. When we started the Kihna revamp, I specifically told the team to keep quiet about it. I told them to not even hint at such a massive project, and even when I had people vaguely question if we were revamping Kuhnas (because we'd closed breeding forever ago), I kept denying it. You can see how much excitement there was when we did finally release the revamp.

I personally give little attention to traits for two reasons: Kodai knows this much better than I do, to the point where I have no idea what the system looks like; and the fact the system is just plain too complicated and too much of a hassle for me. AP, levels, stats, traits, everything is just too much for me. Even if I wanted to help, I wouldn't even know where to start. That's why I leave it all to Kodai, although one of Kodai's problems is that she has a very hard time doing things unless she's told.

It's not excuse, but it's hard for us to really keep up with Evelon all the time. The current project we have going needs Baal around, which is a hard enough thing to get (as far as I know - not that she talks to me, personally, anymore). And then Kyrit and I work, full-time in my case. Kodai has that ridiculous curfew. Silver has family problems that literally keep her from coming on every day and being as productive as she'd like to be. I'm not sure what Krypto's situation is, but as far as I know she's been busy with going back to school and trying to get a job. Last I heard.

Maybe getting people around the forums to help would be beneficial. Then again, we did give the opportunity to a few members who end up not keeping their end, or who are still working on things, albeit as slowly as the staff team. So I'm not sure how we can fix this stagnation problem.

Understand that our motivation, being an unpaid staff, is to see you guys being active. Knowing Evelon is around and kicking gives us the motivation to work, because we know that what we're doing will actually be worthwhile and not a waste of our time, resulting in nobody commenting. Then we get discouraged, and then it starts a vicious cycle.

There's a lot of things that also makes it uncertain about keeping quiet. People were upset when we changed the stats; people bashed Baal and called the female Paragon heads ugly, gross, too different. Sometimes we work on things in the hopes of pleasing you guys, only to have it slap us in the face.

Or then the members don't know what they want. I get it: Kyrit and I have been known for being the two Mods that strike down everyone who speaks against us, and for being unapproachable. But when you guys don't talk in discussions, then we don't know what you want. If Evelon learned to talk instead of complaining after the fact, I think it would actually help tremendously. We have a suggestion forum nobody uses. Admittedly, sometimes we don't post in them very fast. Mostly because of the feeling there's little point sometimes.

There's also the fact Evelon panics and asks for things, yet when they become available, no one actually uses the features. People have a million keys. No one is breeding. People literally complained, panicked, gave me so much grief because the Lakundras had gotten revamps to match their Kuhna forms, saying they would trade their Kundras, saying that the character no longer fitted. I literally had to spoil that we had a feature planned for that for the Salon. And it is currently available. And those who did question this, have not yet posted to get expression changes.

There's a lot of problems we've had in the past, many we have now, and many that we will have in the future. This is personally the way I currently see things. Members expect us to entertain them 100%, when this is an RPing forum. But then you don't feel like doing much, because we don't feel like doing much.

I helped the derailed the topic, but because we started talking about this, this is just my two cents. I have also been unhappy on/with Evelon, although for other, more personal reasons as well.

[Shieba]

You are completely right with everything you say, Shrewdie - I have for a long time helped out Kodai with testing Traits and when she then asked for feedback from the other users, no one commented, which pretty much stopped her from implementing changes I had hoped would come and it was beyond frustrating.

The thing is that I am aware that you guys are super-busy. I know that and yet it frustrates me so because... I feel like Evelon's weakness is that it offers so much. For years, I've only RPed on Evelon and I didn't know anything else, so I was really happy here. Recently, I got into Tumblr RPing and at first I thought it would suck. Because well, there are no KS earned from posts, so less RPing incentive, right? There are no stats, no Traits, no custom pets, no trading, no war, no Scav Hunt, no breeding, nothing. But Evelon was slow, so I decided to give it a try. And you know what? It's awesome because when nothing is offered, nothing disappoints you. There is no frustration in waiting for days for a raffle result when there is no raffle in the first place. I don't need to wait years for Traits because I don't need them to have a battle and there's no prize for battles anyway. Have no image of the character you RP? Just crop some from a similiar-looking anime character! There is no sentence limit, nothing. And that's great.

Evelon offers a lot and I think - but I may be really mistaken - it offers more than you mod guys can currently take care of, with your real lives having changed over the years. I have never been the most patient person, I know, but all the promises that have been made here on Evelon and which have never been kept so far are what drive me away. As well as the slow community, too, by the way, so I absolutely see the vicious cycle you describe.

I have no idea what to do about it, though. Evelon has been a part of my life for so long that leaving feels wrong and I will probably stay for the Diosol but don't do anything else except for breeding them unless something else happens. I know I have so many keys as well, but I don't feel like writing a 15k Gon breeding to end up with more pets I don't use because the forum is dead.

What broke Evelon for me for real aren't just the waiting time which is so long that it feels like things really never get done/a broken promise. It's also the rules. I basically stopped RPing here for good when I learned that I wasn't allowed to RP the characters I wanted to RP because of the forum rules. I'm not allowed to write sex scenes because of banned words. And, when I look at the million crack RPs I have on tumblr which are all one-liners where my partners and I reply to twenty times a day because one sentence and an image don't take much time to post, I think the five-sentence-rule breaks Evelon as well. As a novelist. I never thought I would ever say that since I normally hate short posts, but I have learned a lot in the past few months.

Quite frankly, Shrewdie, I dunno what I should say. I hope no one will hit me, but I am honestly for dropping some things to reduce the workload. Drop Morey - obviously, not even picking a timeframe works after it was declared there would be one very soon two months ago for the current pet. Drop the Shrine and just make the Traits available like the other restricted ones as long as the stat requirements are met. Or drop the whole battle system - I think besides me and Kodai, no one really enjoyed it because except for sometimes Freezy and Thunder, no one else really made suggestions.

I'm not saying that anything like that would help; there are obviously enough issues between you staff members that keep work from getting done as well (especially if Baal's feedback is required and she doesn't talk to some of you guys) but I can try to make suggestions.

In the end, I don't even want to be entertained by you guys. I want to RP. But Evelon makes RPing difficult, with all its rules and requirements. No fight without Traits, but Shrine Traits are not available since two years. So no fight RP in the war anymore when my pet requires the Trait. That's one example. You want a short crack RP? If you want to ditch the five-sentence-rule, you must go to the section which doesn't give KS, which might lead to you being poor and not able to afford pets you want/keys/holiday items/potions, so no one does that.
And because of that, for all the fancy stuff and million side projects and new colorations and revamps you guys come up with... I learned that I enjoy it more when nothing of this exists because with no features, there are less rules and less rules mean more RPing freedom, meaning more people RPing and me able to actually do what I want to do.

If any of that makes sense.

Topic derailment = 100% complete.

[Jaykobell]

I am currently on my phone so my replies may be short or full of weird typos, but I am actually reading everything.

I pointed out and agree with be first few points, so I'll only address the ones I feel like I need to address.

What restricts you as far as RPing sex is concerned? Apart from saying genitalia, you can actually RP sex very freely. If it bothers you that you can't say the P and V words, Baal had mentioned maybe lifting that ban. That was ages ago. Idk what ever came of it. I personally don't care much, although I personally like keeping those words banned. They're kinda just... gross? Well, that's not the word I want, but it's close enough. But I doubt people will abuse them so I wouldn't mind lifting that ban.

You have to understand some of the rules are not within our control. Some of them are from the forum host, and we can't just break those rules. We could risk our access or what have you. But I find that Evelon is pretty flexible in terms of everything else.

As far as getting rid of things... Well, some of those things were to see if they could spark some life into the forums. Clearly, they didn't work. Perhaps dropping some features would help, ultimately.

There's one thing that is very difficult in what you said. From the sound of things, you seem to enjoy a sense of freedom and/or lack of structure/rules. Abolish traits, stats; no 5-sentence rule; etc. The thing is, Evelon NEEDS this structure, these rules: they're mandatory to keep the forums stable.

I think battles could be abolished. I personally loved your idea of RP battles, and I did say I would really love to see this implemented. But not a lot of people seemed interested.

The thing with KS is that letting people obtain those with virtually no restriction might make the system overflow. Things that are meant to be rare will become cheap because everyone will post a few sentences and earn a quick buck. Unless we up prices or make the system fluctuate with the KS intake, the currency system will be virtually worthless after a period of time.

We also need keys and post minimums for breedings, or else we could be flooded. People would post two posts and then call the breeding done. Or they would just do a million breedings all at once and then we won't be able to give babies in a timely manner.

Admittedly, I always felt like rarity on Evelon was... an unnecessary concept. This is a place to RP: not to collect, in itself. And it bothers me that sometimes I have to go and lose my chance at a pet because 'they're rare' and 'they have to be expensive'. Exclusives are nice, but I feel like Evelon shouldn't focus so much on rarity.

Idk... This is a long shot... What if we had a month where... Everything goes on Evelon? Breed as much as you want. RP short form in RP areas and earn 5KS per sentence. We'll keep some things like you'd still have to post 25 posts minimum for breedings, but you could do it short form, paragraph form, no 5-sentence rule, etc. No need for potions for same-gender (but you'll need for Generative and such, since those are random factors).
And we can see how it goes.

This is just me throwing this out there. The other mods don't know about this, I'm thinking of it as I'm typing my reply to you here. But how about that. Then we could see if it helps or not.

I'd be willing to try it out, but again, this is just me saying that. Don't take me too seriously, unless the other mods would be willing to try it.