Should ELEs and LLPs be eliminated?

[Mojave]

EDIT: Added a poll so the mods can see the numbers of people who want this change.

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Alrighty guys, I'm half asleep so I'm sorry if this isn't very eloquent or whatever.

I was thinking the other day about LLPs and how, honestly, they're not very... efficient. I know they act as a KS sink, but I honestly don't think they're needed. Here's why.

1. We have PLENTY of new shops to act as KS sinks. Needing to spend 40ks just to breed two pets is kinda overkill.
2. Some of the breedable species (Kuhnas and Soveris, I'm looking at you) don't have set genders so users 'cheat' the system by making the breeding an AU version, or use a character created on the fly rather than the actual character, to  get around needing one.
3. Even though the potions are unlimited stock now, you still have to go to the Marketplace, post that you're buying one, send the ks, and then create your room. It just feels unnecessary to have to go to two places (not counting your pen/docs to grab code(s)) to start the breeding.
4. Same gender (and other genders) have become more popular/normal, and I only see the number rising.

So, with these thoughts, why don't we eliminate this potion?

[RiDragon]

The biggest obstacle I can see being brought up is people who want their KS back for their previous purchases of the potion, and that would be...  difficult.

[Mousen]

I think it would be nice to see the Lovey Love Potion change. If people are upset by the loss of money, maybe a potion exchange could be sorted out? So you could switch the old Lovey Love Potion for a Chaos draught or something similar if you have an old potion on hand and post in the Brewery?. The main issue may be the ELE which did cost quite a lot of KS, although I suppose an exchange might work here too.

I've been feeling like there's been some issues with the premise of the Lovey Love Potions for awhile, like things that technically shouldn't matter in the sense that its for breeding pixel animals on a website, but get a bit odd when you think about them? Mostly from a point of view of nonbinary/intersex/genderless/Eldritch/alien/etc. characters where you couldn't/wouldn't want to say either way and while people are doing the practical thing and just getting on with it, the whole system seems a bit weird?

[ToxicShadow]

I am behind this 110%!

(Although this is only my opinion strictly as another user.)

Same gender, other gender, non-gender, and any other combo one can thing of, breedings are all fairly commonplace these days. I do feel it's horribly unfortunate that users breeding something other than a strictly M/F breeding have to fork over an extra 40 KS just to do so.

Unlike the other potions, it doesn't really do anything to the breeding; it remains a basic breeding, with no other special effects. It doesn't make things chaotic and add colors or markings, it doesn't allow users to create a baby like a palette potion, etc.

As for existing potions, well, I, personally, would still rather just eat the KS from whatever potions I have already purchased (which is at least two ELEs), in favor of no longer having to purchase them ever again. I'm a-okay with that, since a very large portion of my characters swing in many directions, as far as their preferences in their partners go. I'd easily spend over 300 KS in LLPs for future breedings.

Of course, I'm also of the opinion that, it probably wouldn't be so bad to refund the cost of LLPs and unused ELEs or, perhaps, giving those users a "credit," to go towards other potion purchases. I'm not sure if any of the staff would like these ideas, though, but it's just a thought on what could be done.

Ultimately, I'd rather see the change happen, even if I do NOT get anything back for my purchased potions.

[zapdragon555]

This is also just my opinion as a user! But I'm absolutely behind this, for all reasons aforementioned.

As for people who have purchased LLPs and used them, I'd say that it's kind of a moot point. They've been used, so there's nothing to be done about that--it's possible if someone has LLPs saved up, though, they could receive compensation? Either half or full reimbursement? And I suppose all breedings currently up and running that have already used an LLP wouldn't change either--it would just a "from now on" kind of thing.

ELEs I feel like would be a compensation other than KS. Some kind of potion swap, like Toxic suggested?

[Kylo]

I agree with all of this! I know I have a pet with an ele and I'd be okay with just a simple potion swap.

[Middy]

I agree with this 100%, since having to buy so many potions for same gender breedings adds up combined with room cost (not to mention the aforementioned loopholes). I am also behind the potion swap 100% as well. Although I don't solely breed same gender for the sake of variety, I think this change would be a healthy one.

(tired when I wrote this, apologies if it's incoherent!)

[ToxicShadow]

I feel like I probably need to clarify what I was thinking when it comes to some sort of return for purchased potions, and, thus, we'll look at a shorted version of my items list. Here:

ToxicShadow:
       Emission Liquor 1
       Eternal Love Elixir 1
       ELE: Baron
       Generative Draught 3
       Lovey Love Potion 1
       XX Draught 1


There is one Lovey Love Potion, one UNUSED Eternal Love Elixir (ELE), and one USED Eternal Love Elixir, attached to my pet named Baron.

For Lovely Love Potions, I feel like a 40 KS return for each one is no big deal. It's not a LOT of KS going back into the system. With UNUSED ELEs, even getting the cost back (150 KS) for them isn't A LOT, in the grand scheme of things. (It takes over 500 KS to buy one of Each of the Easter pets right now, for example.)

HOWEVER, I don't imagine getting anything back for my USED ELE (the one already attached to Baron). Like a used LLP, that disappears, I certainly don't expect any return for an item I've already used. Yes, it was more pricey than buying a LLP, but SOME users have already made use of their ELEs in more than one breeding. Not everyone, but some. At MOST, I'd say a 40 KS return (the price of a single LLP), could be offered for USED ELEs, but, even then, the item was used, so that's just that. Most return policies in real life don't take back used items or, at least, not for longer than maybe a few months.

Optionally, a credit or voucher could be given, or users could post in the shop to "return," their potions, and exchange them for new ones. (Likely paying the difference in KS, if they potions they want cost more than what they are getting for returning potions.)

Again, though, I'm still okay just losing the cost on all the potions I have bought, if it means never having to buy them again, since it will still save me money in the long run. xD;

[Jaykobell]

Ironically I'd been thinking about that recently. xD Like why do we still have LLPs.

I agree with Toxic as far as returns not being that "significant" in the grand scheme of things (i.e. 150KS back for an ELE whereas it takes over 500KS to buy the whole Easter Egg stock). Not to mention, like Mojave said, we already have KS sinks left and right. As far as I'm aware, isn't everyone a little bit broke lmao?

But, I guess as it is when you purchase something, it would still be logical to not get anything. If staff doesn't want to reimburse fully, I think half price or a potion swap is a good compromise.

But with Evelon having changed so much over the years, I also agree that the LLP has become a little passé.

[crow]

As someone who is perpetually broke and very stingy, yeah, I'm all for this. I'd also LOVE to get KS back for my one (unused) ELE but I'm not about to cry if it doesn't happen. :') This is all as your fellow member, of course.

[Skeetzybug]

I have an unused ELE and while I'd be like "oohhhh the wasted KS!" in my miserly little heart, overall I think it would be a GREAT change to see, not just for KS, but for the concept of it anyway? I always disliked that for any of my trans or non-binary characters I'd have to go by their 'designated at birth sex' anyway. :P So KS aside, I'd be all for it just for nixing that complication.

[Jaden Wolf]

I think the concept is a great idea, but I still think if there's going to be reimbursement for unused LLP and ELE, then there should be something for 'used' ELE, even if it's only if the potion has been bought in the last few months/past year or something. Some people (like me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one) got it as an investment for a specific pet and haven't gotten its value's worth out of it yet.

I can say in my case, I literally just bought one and had it used on my Kai right away only because I knew he would need it in the future. I just started a breeding with him, but I could just have easily gotten an LLP for much cheaper. That being said, I understand that giving back the full value or something on a potion that may have been used (to its full value or not) is not a great concept and I think partial reimbursement would be acceptable too - just not...nothing.

[Thunder]

I've been thinking about this ever since Toxic mentioned it at some point, and I also agree that we can eliminate LLPs/ELEs since yeah, it seems unnecessarily restrictive when you consider all the factors previously mentioned (species that don't have built in genders, genderfluid characters, loopholes with AUs and stuff, etc.).

So, I'm totally for reimbursing unused potions, which would be more flexible than a potion swap since the KS can then go towards anything the user wants, not just other potions that they might not necessarily want/need at the moment. I also wouldn't be against a full reimbursement for used ELEs since those are still rendered moot even though they've already been used. Only a handful of users have a ton of used ELEs, so I don't think most people will suddenly be getting heaps and mounds of cash, if that's a concern. Besides, as people mentioned, we have plenty of KS sinks.

[SpringsSong]

As someone who's had to push same-gendered breeding pairs back again and again because there was no guarantee that the potion would be recorded before the end of the month more than once, and instead went with a m/f pair so that any unused slots didn't get wasted, I definitely support this idea.

[Rainbowfox Ari]

Although I'm just NOW starting to come back and get into the swing of things, I support this idea too. Anyone who knows me knows that I have more males than not - and trying to find m/f breedings is a pain in my tail. Not only that, I'm generally very broke, since I tend to be extremely careful with the KS I spend, and [as of right now, anyway] I don't have the time, or wrist strength, or energy to do a massive amount of RPs just to get breeding-potion prices.

OTHER KS sinks exist, and I believe that LLPs and ELEs shouldn't have to be one of them. When it comes to refunds... I guess I would agree that any LLPs could be changed into KS, and any ELEs could be switched with another potion [just not an EoF, or we'd have those everywhere], and there could be a form you fill out if you HAVE any unused potions of that nature, just so staff can keep count.

So yeah. Long, rambling answer made short... Yes, I support this.