After reading the post below concerning the breeding reform, what do you think?

[Jaykobell]

~*~

After talking with Baal and talking among Staff, we would like to propose something to you guys.

Would you like the Lucain and Paragon to breed using the same system as the Diosols?

Instead of hosting sporadic raffles, we would sell items similar to Breeder Boosts that you could pay for and use on your pairs whenever you see fit. Buy an item, get a breeding room!

Pros:
-You get to hoard your rooms. No more pressure to breed something because you have 5 days to do it.
-TIME INCREASE. Since you're paying for your room, it's only fair to increase it to 2 weeks, like the Diosols.
-Since we just have to post once and let people get the rooms, easier process = more rooms more often for you!
-(See Cons) LOWER License numbers to make them more achievable (details pending at this time).

Cons:
-Higher price than just 15KS (which was the entry fee for the raffles). How much would you like to pay? Please include both a KS and an $RL amount. At this time, we are thinking about charging $5/150KS per item.
-Possibility of decreasing the number of babies. Rooms are basically free and people already complain that some rooms didn't give them enough babies. Both species would potentially breed from 2-3 offspring.
-Basically going back to a 'sniping' sort of system; same buying process as the Diosols' BBs.

Also keep in mind that, like the Diosols, you can only buy ONE (1) of each type. If we release 10 items, don't go buying all 10 of them. Only one per type (if applicable, subject to change if we separate the types) per person!


There's probably more that I can't think of right now.

Still, with how things stand, would you guys prefer this system over the current one? Do you think it's a terrible idea to change this particular system, considering Cain and Gon have been breeding the same way for years? Or do you think this is the reform that will finally make the system work?

If we do apply this system, what would you like us to change? More/less babies? More/less room time? Of course, remember to be realistic; paying $5 for an item to get 4-5 babies isn't very likely to happen.

Please vote in the poll, and debate maturely. If I see people pointing fingers or accusing others, I will close this. I know how breeding debates get, so keep it friendly, guys.

[Kitsumi]

I definitely like the idea, since it would mean a better chance of getting breeding rooms and such, but I have my reservations. I've never been able to snatch up a breeding boost, so whose to say if I would ever be able to get a room? I feel like the people who always snatch up the breeding boosts would also get the rooms; there would be a few people breeding every single time, and the other people who usually only won through raffles and such wouldn't be able to breed, unless they did a pairing with one of those people.

At least, that's how I see it. I really, really like the idea...it just seems like it would make it far harder for me personally to get rooms xD I personally stalk the forums, literally...if I haven't  been online for a few hours, I'll log on just to see where new posts have been made. And yet I still always, always, always miss out on the breeder boosts. So I don't know how I'd be able to get breeding rooms if they were made this way anymore.

[Kyrit]

One thing that can be done to solve the problem that we have with the breeder boosters is that since we know not everyone is going to post their rooms at one with this system(There are tons of breeder boosters not used right now) is that we can release them in larger batches so more people have the ability to snag them. We already plan on allowing only one purchase of each type like with the boosters. So instead of releasing 5, say we release 10. That'd be five more people able to get rooms since those first 5 won't be able to snag all 10.

Kodai also just suggested in the IRC only allowing people to buy room keys if they do not have a key of that type already. The only problem I see with that is that it just encourages people to rush rush rush and get their rooms done so they can buy another. Either way, there are measures we can take to try to get more than just the same people each time.

[ToxicShadow]

I'm rather... iffy on this because, as it stands, we already pay $20 (or more) to get a custom Lucain or Paragon, so the sense of wanting us to pay more to even breed them (which really is the entire point of even buying them) is kind of like a bit of a rip off, in a sense. The whole reason I ever started buying Lucain and Paragon for the $20 was because of the breeding benefits. Basically going, "Okay, yea, I'm spending $20, but I should be able to get something else out of it." If it wasn't for the ability to breed them (without much cost), I would have never, ever considered purchasing as many as I have. (And I sure as heck know that my parents would have never let me buy one back in the days where I was young and had to get permission, as is a lot of our users, still. Trust me, back then, I had to give the whole run down to my mother every single time I purchased a Lucain, and the only she let me get them was because of the free breedings and possible ability to increase my own virtual income standing because of it.)

My second concern is that the reason we even went to raffles in the first place was because of the sniping issues. (Which have already started to reoccur with the Diosol's boosters, since its generally the same users that have the cash on hand and, even if others do, a good amount of the same people have been getting them during each stock.)

Now, no, I'm not entirely against the idea, but I would heavily like to suggest making this a dual system; where there are still small raffles (perhaps without fees at all?) and this sort of system. I truly don't think it is right to charge for every single time that you breed, which would be the point of the raffles remaining, but if you really, really wanted to breed, then you could fork over the cash.

I also disagree with a decrease in offspring because, well, it has always been the way it is and, again, with the price already charged for Lucain and Paragon, it wouldn't seem all the right to lower the offspring amounts. =/

[Azura Rayume]

Alright, I made a list thing. x3

In support of using BOTH options.

For the ITEM:
- The breeding boosts are easier on you guys, obviously. With the raffles, there's a lot for the mods to handle- the set up, the number set, the raffle itself, and the actual time for the rooms. I know it can be a big hassle for you guys, and using an item such as the breeding boosts would help you tremendously. As I've said before, anything that both lightens your work load and helps the users get what they want is alright by me.
-  Sure "sniping" can be an issue, but people lived with it before. They can live with it now. In fact, the DO live with it now, since people can snipe Diosol breedings the same way they would snipe the Lucain/Paragon ones. I, being someone who "grew up" with the old, old way of doing things am perfectly fine with this. People got rooms, one way or another, and they survived.
- Rooms would come out often enough that people wouldn't complain. Even if it was really random when they came out, it would be more often than they do right now. We wouldn't have the "there aren't enough rooms anymore" complaint.
- The extended time is a BRILLIANT idea. With a majority of the active population in college, about to go to college, or currently employed, many people don't have time to sit down and do a breeding in a couple of days. The only reason I was able to crank out the breeding with Fire is because we were both on Christmas break. I would hate to enter a raffle, win, and then lose the chance to use the room because I had a test and a lab coming up and couldn't get on because of school work.
- Being able to use them at any time goes with the whole school/work thing.

For the RAFFLE:
- Users who are unable to pay with $RL/GT/have bookoos of KS may not be able to breed. The raffles are a way for those people to get a fair shot at having a room without such resources. (For some people, 150KS is "bookoos" by they way. Lolz.)
- Yes, sniping is still an issue, and the raffle fixes that.

All in all, I would like to see it go to a dual system, with the rooms being released by item a bit more frequently simply because it would alleviate a lot of strain on the mods. The raffles would still be in place, and, if the system is still considered too unfair, you could even make "newbie breedings" raffles, where you can't enter if you go over a certain qualification, typically having a maximum amount of the specific breeder the rooms are for.

And, with the baby thing, I think the idea of only having 2-3 every time is a point where people are gonna complain. If you made it so that there is a chance for a larger litter but that chance is lower than the regular rooms, I don't think there would be much room to argue. Everything would be roll of the dice, but people shouldn't count on getting five pups from a breeding using an item.

[Moofius]

I like the idea of dual systems, like Toxic suggested. And if that's not possible, leaving the system as is. The rooms will just go to the rich this way. Whether it's money rich or KS rich (which tend to be the same people because they are often buying customs and selling them back into the community for GT or KS).

We don't need KS sinks like we use to. Most people don't have a whole lot now (and then there's a few running around with thousands and nothing to spend it on). So... Preferably a half and half system to keep everyone happy (doubt it but we can fool ourselves) or leave it as is. I prefer it as is because I'm an old fart and a poor student who doesn't RP as much as she use to.

[Kyrit]

As far as baby numbers go, our current ideas are that Paragon would stay 2-3(they're a lot more of a hassle to do than Lucain because the file is large and cumbersome) and Lucain would be 3-4. Sure, you wouldn't have that chance of getting that rare 5th pup any more, but you also wouldn't be stuck with getting just 2 pups for 150KS or whatever.

[ToxicShadow]

The above numbers, that Draiz posted, I think I can agree with, with Paragon being the same and just one pup lower on the Lucain, I have only ever gotten the five pups twice out of all the breedings I have done, anyway.

As for the price, since no one has mentioned it here, I agree that the price of $5/150 ks sounds fair enough. If split between two users, ks-wise, that would be 75 ks. o3o

Though, again, I still think a combination of this and raffles would be best.

[Azura Rayume]

I like the idea of 3-4 pups for Lucain. o3o You get a good chance of getting a kid you really like, and it would be fair for partner breedings. x3

And the price of 150KS/$5 works for me. o3o It's not an impossible number to achieve, and walking away with at least one pup would make it worth it to me.

[Bug-A-Boo]

I like that idea. For one thing, other than buying pets from other people, there's not much for me to spend my ks on. It doesn't take that long to earn 150ks really, so people without money could always do that. I mean, the site is supposed to be based on roleplaying, not breeding. On some roleplay sites, people can make as many as 100 posts a day; if you did that on here, you would get 500ks. It's really not hard when you actually roleplay.

Not only will there be more breeding rooms and more often, with the choice of using them whenever we like, we'd be getting at least 3 pups (if I've read Draiz's post right) for around 150 ks or $5. Considering that pups are kind of like ordering a random lucian, that's like getting 3 of them for 1/3 of the price. I personally consider that a good deal.

It'll make the gaining of rooms less random; I think rooms will be valued more, since not only do you have to pay a bit more than a measly 15ks for them, but they will also have to be acquired. According to my oldest sister, Amber, this is how things were before, except for they were even harder to get. If people could deal with it then, than I'm sure they can deal with it now, right?

Maybe there could be raffles every once in a while, but I like this idea as being the main way of getting breeding rooms. As long as people can only get one every restock, then perhaps 10 (using that since it was the number previously mentioned) different people can get a room. If they for some reason don't want to use the room, they could sell or trade it.

I really, really like the idea.

[Kitsumi]

Okay, just popping in to say that after listening to Boo's persuasive argument for the new methods, I agree with it. I vote for buying/purchasing room "keys".

[Jaykobell]

Just as an FYI, the poll allows you to change your vote if you wish. If you previously voted for 'no' or 'neutral' and changed your mind, you can vote for 'yes' if you want to.

[jackie125]

I think selling the rooms is a good idea, but it's always the same people who have money. Real cash or KS. I don't find it very fair, quite frankly.

[Jaykobell]

If we go with the current prices, anyone can sell some KS in order to get 5GTs if you want cash, and really, I don't even consider 150KS to be rich. You have 100KS when you first start here, so 150KS is very affordable.

Especially since, as Boo said, Evelon is a role-playing site, which is something people seem to forget a lot. If you do RP (and 5 sentences isn't a lot), it doesn't take much time to go up to 150KS.

And if people are really upset about something like sniping, then what I could potentially propose is to use the system I use for Kuhna rooms. That is to say, we post giving a pre-determined time of release. And really, it would be fairer for Mods too. Because I post saying items will be released at 3PM doesn't mean I (personally, since I seem to be one of those 'rich' people who always get everything U:) can snatch any, considering I work until 5; but Mods could still 'snipe' with members, considering we wouldn't be the only ones who knew. If I release Kuhna rooms, obviously I'm the only one to know RIGHT that second, so snatching a room is like cheating. But if everyone knows rooms are being released at X hour, then it becomes fair for Mods to try and snatch them too. But having a pre-determined release time would allow everyone, roughly, to know when they're going to get released, which avoids, in a sense, 'unfair' sniping. You would know when to snipe, so it's not like it's unfair.

[Freezair]

I am in favor of the dual system, but only with Kodai's proviso. That is to say, you may only be in possession of one Breeder Boost/room/whatever at a time, even if it hasn't been used. As it stands now, people seem to get a little crazy about hoarding Diosol boosts. Sure, you can only buy one of each type, but when five boosts of each type are released at a time, people will buy one of each still, so you still only have a few people obtaining them, and frequently they're held onto for a while. So while you can hold onto your item for as long as you like, have a longer amount of time for it, and use it when you want it, I think to prevent people from hoarding them, they should have a "one per person" limit.

One additional thing I would propose would be to not allow them to be purchased for Goddess Tears. The reason for this is twofold. For one, it makes them a bit more difficult to come across. If one person manages to snipe several restocks, their KS will drain away and it will take them a little while to replenish it and thus keep them out of the race for a while, so that others have a chance to get some. The other reason is because it would keep them a matter of purely of site-based prestige. You would have to roleplay them and participate in site things in order to gain the ability to buy one. True, people could sell off customs and things for the KS to afford them, but they wouldn't be able to just pop down RL$ to buy one during a restock. Not only do we have a lot of college kids here, but not everyone has a job that gives them extra spending money, and for those of our members still living at home, RL$ isn't always easy to come by. And there's no guarantee of being able to trade for some before the next restock.